Unbelievable.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

4/8 live game
UTG loosey #1 openraises, UTG+1 loosey #2 3bets, MP loosey#3 calls, Tina caps with QsQh on button. SB calls. BB folds. loosey #1 and loosey #2 and loosey#3 call. 21 bets in. 5 players.

flop: 2c 5d Td
SB checks, loosey#1 bets, loosey#2 raises, loosey#3 calls, Tina calls, SB folds, loosey#1 folds?? 28 bets in. 3 players.
28 bets ---> 14 BB's

turn: Jc
loosey#2 checks, loosey#3 checks, Tina bets, loosey#2 checkraises, loosey#3 re-checkraises(?!), Tina looks at the two real hard and shakes her head and mucks. loosey#2 calls. 20 BB, 2 callers

river: 7h
loosey #2 bets, MP calls. 22 BB
MP shows.... Qc 9c ?!
loosey#1 shows Qd 8d ?!
MP takes down the 22 BB pot (4/8 table) with a Q high and groans heard all around the table. Tina storms off to get a soda.

I'd never seen anything like this before. the hand smelled like collusion to me, but loosey#1 is a regular, i've seen loosey#2 from time to time, and had never seen loosey#3 before, so I don't think they knew each other.
You guys have been around the game longer, maybe you have better insight. Ever see hands like this?

Whats the biggest pot you've ever won with Q high?
What's the lowest high card you've won with? i once won a checkdown between the 2 blinds with 8 high.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
4/8 live game
UTG loosey #1 openraises, UTG+1 loosey #2 3bets, MP loosey#3 calls, Tina caps with QsQh on button. SB calls. BB folds. loosey #1 and loosey #2 and loosey#3 call. 21 bets in. 5 players.

flop: 2c 5d Td
SB checks, loosey#1 bets, loosey#2 raises, loosey#3 calls, Tina calls, SB folds, loosey#1 folds?? 28 bets in. 3 players.
28 bets ---> 14 BB's

turn: Jc
loosey#2 checks, loosey#3 checks, Tina bets, loosey#2 checkraises, loosey#3 re-checkraises(?!), Tina looks at the two real hard and shakes her head and mucks. loosey#2 calls. 20 BB, 2 callers

river: 7h
loosey #2 bets, MP calls. 22 BB
MP shows.... Qc 9c ?!
loosey#1 shows Qd 8d ?!
MP takes down the 22 BB pot (4/8 table) with a Q high and groans heard all around the table. Tina storms off to get a soda.

I'd never seen anything like this before. the hand smelled like collusion to me, but loosey#1 is a regular, i've seen loosey#2 from time to time, and had never seen loosey#3 before, so I don't think they knew each other.
You guys have been around the game longer, maybe you have better insight. Ever see hands like this?

Whats the biggest pot you've ever won with Q high?
What's the lowest high card you've won with? i once won a checkdown between the 2 blinds with 8 high.

[/ QUOTE ]

No fuckin way. I'd probably fold too...thinking at least one of them really has me murdered...

[bdk3clash]

Given the player and table descriptions you've provided, you'll have to pry my overpair away from my cold, dead hands.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Given the player and table descriptions you've provided, you'll have to pry my overpair away from my cold, dead hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not me. A double checkraise? Are you kidding? 9 times out of 10 at least the 2nd isn't bluffing...it's just not a profitable situation, and even most maniacs know taht...at least i think??? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Usually you're going to have to put a LOT more money in on the turn/river and you're behind. Just muck it and get on with it and remember this hand and dno't do it again if a similar situation comes up.

[symphonic]

With an overpair, i'd probably of called the turn and river in such a big pot. I have a tendency to have trouble getting away from hands though.

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd never seen anything like this before. the hand smelled like collusion to me

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no reason to suspect collusion.

The two looseys with Qc9c and Qd8d each played their hands within reason, especially on the turn. Each player has both a flush draw and a gut-shot straight draw. It is hardly maniacal or unreasonable to jam monster draws like that.

I'm also not folding an overpair in that spot. Tina played her hand very poorly post-flop with her weak call on the flop and her fold on the turn.

[SLCKid]

I agree with Dynasty. I reraise with the Queens. And they're not colluding with those draws out there.

[SLCKid]

and the guy who folded was just stabbing a bluff at the pot.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

actually, loosey#3 picked up a open ended straight + flush draw on the turn, giving him something like 17 outs to hit the river. so you're right, it wasn't so strange after all. i was just so shocked that Q high picked it up.

needless to say, the looseys' preflop play were all horrible and i think everybody played terribly on the flop as well, unfortunately including my friend Tina.

Loosey #3 (MP) was lucky enough to catch the perfect turn giving him all those outs, but why the double checkraise other than to make it more expensive for himself to draw?
what is his thought process in this move? it still comes across to me as maniacal despite the huge draw picked up on the turn, but the mathematics probably shows that i'm wrong in thinking this, right? (that's why i'm asking)

in retrospect, that move did win him the pot as it drove Tina out, so cheers to him.

btw.. sorry if my post was confusing as i switched around some of the looseys around, but you guys got the hand right?

[RydenStoompala]

The fold was the right move. I would rightly anticipate seeing someone turn over 8,9 or trips and when Queen high wins I would also go for a soda...the kind Budweiser makes. Just sounds like a freak hand. I've played into real collusion schemes and one of them almost always has a hand. They also like to sit across from each other or at the ends so they have eye contact. I doubt this was a crime, just a good poker story.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Chris,

loosey#3 picked up a open ended straight + flush draw on the turn, giving him something like 17 outs to hit the river

An open-ender + plus draw is a 15-outer. You should learn these common draws and their odds and outs 'cause you'll run into them over and over and over again. Eventually they should just roll off your tongue (mentally speaking).

why the double checkraise other than to make it more expensive for himself to draw?

It's what's called a semi-bluff. He's attempting to make a better hand fold in hopes of winning the pot right there. And if he is called, he has plenty of outs, so he's not in horrible shape. However, unless he knew both players were tight and he thought he had a reasonable chance of taking it down on the turn, his check-3-bet doesn't look like a great move here. But it's definitely not uncommon for LAG's or "Gamblers".

I agree with Dynasty: there's no collusion here. The call on the river was a save-face call, not a desperation call. The caller thought there was zero chance of winning, but wanted to make it seem like he had a decent hand. It happens all the time.

GoT

[Mike Gallo]

I would go to the river with this hand.

The pot has become too big to fold.

[bernie]

who folds an overpair in a game like this? on top of that, why play the flop so passively with an overpair? description of the table and players tells you to stay in.

tina played it terrible.

b

[cold_cash]

[ QUOTE ]
but why the double checkraise other than to make it more expensive for himself to draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe to get a hand like QQ to lay down.

[Vehn]

I hate to sound like a prick (ok, no, I don't) but there is some really dreadful "hand in a bottle" analysis thinking here. If you were playing 6 tables of 3/6 or something, obviously the right play would be to fold on the turn. However its clearly stated this is a live game and these guys were very loose aggressive and could have just about anything. You can't fold on the turn here.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]

Whats the biggest pot you've ever won with Q high?


[/ QUOTE ]

$180 6/12 pot. 2 bets PF a lot of ways, coupled with me three betting the flop and ending up heads up against a T9s flush draw. River went check check.

[bicyclekick]

I really can't believe so many of you wouldn't fold. I agree the pot size is huge...but cmon! you're not going to have the best of it often enough to come out on top I don't think.

[Mike Gallo]

Well, I pretty much went schizophrenic on this and thought exactly what MG posted and did what LetsRock thought, and also got to remind myself why JT sucks out of position because I would have reraised with a better kicker.

I payoff like an ATM when I get involved in a big pot.

[Lori]

I once posted a 59 BB pot I won with K high, no joking. Of course it was not quite what I'm leading you to believe, but here it is again for those who didn't catch it before.

Margarita Madness (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=probability&Number=150 443&Forum=All_Forums&Words=margarita%20lorinda&Mat ch=And&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=150 443&Search=true#Post150443)

Lori

[sfer]

Right back at ya', CDC.

[bdk3clash]

Longest...bump...ever...

[IndieMatty]

I say it everytime I see a nyc club post--can't fold--60% are worse then Party 1/2 players.

To answer, I called one bet from UTG with a 6-4 (oes), and checked down and won with 6 high.

Oops I just assumed CDC was a nycer...eh they still suck.