KK on the BT - 2 tone paired flop

[BugsBunny]

Party Poker 2/4 Hold 'Em (10 handed) converter (http://www.stompandcrush.com/cgi-bin/hhparser.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO-1 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO-1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO-1 calls, Hero calls.

<font color="green">(My thinking here is to just call the flop. If a non-diamond falls on the turn then I pop the turn. If a diamond falls I go into call down mode - Anybody raise the flop here?)</font>

Turn: (9 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, CO-1 folds,
<font color="purple">Your move - call/re-raise/fold

Results to follow
</font>

[JohnShaft]

IMO you're very likely beat here, and drawing to two outs.

I think I would raise the flop, especially in a game where those playing are well capable of having a 2 (2/4 Party that seems a good posibility).
Yeah I'd raise the flop for sure.

MP1 would seem to have either the 2, or have turned the flush. It's a different spot if you have the K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, but as you don't you are in trouble here and having to call two cold, with the possibility of calling another 1/2 (or having to fold for 2 without seeing the River).

Not raising the flop has left you in a spot where you are probably put on a much weaker hand than you have. That's the problem. But it still wouldn't make me call two cold.

I fold. But next time I very likely raise the Flop, and bet the Turn.

One of the favourite moves of the worst players at the worst sites seems to be *always* calling, even cold-calling, when they flop trips. Then *always* raising, or check-raising the Turn.

If MP1 had only the 8 he should have, and likely would have, raised the flop.
No way I'm putting in at best 3 BB's to see I'm beat here.

[bunky9590]

Hey Bugs, I raise the flop, but I can see your merits for calling. (and it makes sense)

The turn you're forced to call two cold there? Nah. Not me. I dump the Kings, curse the poker gods, say a couple hail marys and move on to the next hand.

[unome]

I agree with what everyone else has said here. Definitely rasie the flop, if you get three bet just call and safely fold when that diamond hits and people start betting and raising. If it's checked to you on the turn, I think I may have to consider checking then calling a bet on the river if no diamond falls (fold in that case) or a King comes (raise in that case.)

[BugsBunny]

I folded the turn - unhappily. Even more unhappy at the end of the hand. Here's the entire hand. Some comments at the end.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold 'Em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO-1 calls, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO-1 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="blue">(6 players)</font>
SB bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO-1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
SB bets, MP1 raises, MP2 folds, CO-1 folds, Hero folds, SB calls.

River: (13 BB) J/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB

MP1 shows 7h 8h (two pairs, eights and twos). SB shows 9d 9c (two pairs, nines and twos).
----


Not raising the flop may have cost me this pot. My standard play is to raise in this spot - but I decided to try and play it a bit differently. I still don't think not raising in this instance is a terrible play (although the pair on the board should have made me more inclined to raise), and would try it again somewhere along the line (without a pair on board). But my standard play would still remain to raise in this case. On the other hand if the pair of 8's had (and should have, IMO) raised the flop I would have definitely reraised, and the entire hand would have played out differently. C'est la Vie