Omaha/8...the "worst" Aces

[Theodore Donald Kiravatsos]

I've been thinking about the game lately, and discussing things with friends, and the subject came around to "Do you ever fold Aces preflop"?

That led me to thinking about the "worst" AAXX hand you could be dealt in Omaha/8. I think I pretty much nailed it, but I would like to hear any alternatives.

AAXX, containing
- neither Ace suited
- no broadway straight cards (no big straight for scoops)
- no wheel cards (no nut low possibilities)
- XX unpaired
- as big a gap as possible between the X-X

I came up with AA96.

But I could see someone saying something like AA77, or AA(87s), where you could make all sorts of hands to get you in trouble on the flop, like bottom set, a straight draw to half the pot, and a non-nut flush draw.

Comments?

"Your excuses are your own" -- Richard Roma

[Buzz]

Rakay - Depends.

Scenario #1 - You're at the final table of an O-8 tournament that started with 100 players and you have posted the small blind. Everyone folds to you. You and the big blind both have medium stacks. If you raise, you half expect the big blind to call your raise and see the flop, and you half expect the big blind to fold. What do you least want to be holding:
a. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif
b. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif
c. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif
Here is one more choice for your list:
d. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

Scenario #2 - You're sitting on the button in a $3-$6 game at a Los Angeles area casino where there is only one blind and the button posts a $1 jackpot collection fee which reduces the cost of calling the blind to $2 for the button. The player sitting to your left has never been known to raise his own blind before the flop. An average of eight of the players at the table see the flop. On the last hand one guy saw the flop for a single bet with
5/images/graemlins/club.gif5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, then called a double bet after the flop of
7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, and then called a single bet after a turn of
7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Usually you are the one who doesn't, see the flop, but on this particualr occasion one other player has folded, meaning that if you call (or raise), there will be eight of you seeing the flop. (I hope I've made it crystal clear that there is no guarantee that the aces are gone just because seven opponents will be seeing the flop here). What do you least want to be holding:
a. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif
b. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif
c. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif
d. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

Same hands, different scenarios, different preferences.

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[bugstud]

AAAA is the worst...

[scottv]

Your right. Even AA96 is better as you could get quad 9s or 6s.

[Fraubump]

[ QUOTE ]
Scenario #1 - You're at the final table of an O-8 tournament that started with 100 players and you have posted the small blind. Everyone folds to you. You and the big blind both have medium stacks. If you raise, you half expect the big blind to call your raise and see the flop, and you half expect the big blind to fold. What do you least want to be holding:
a. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif
b. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif
c. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif
Here is one more choice for your list:
d. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif

>
C is the class hand here: I want some counterfeit low protection in my hand heads up, as often any low is good enough to win low heads up. The low possibility is a plus for A and B, so D seems like the worst hand.
>

Scenario #2 - You're sitting on the button in a $3-$6 game at a Los Angeles area casino where there is only one blind and the button posts a $1 jackpot collection fee which reduces the cost of calling the blind to $2 for the button. The player sitting to your left has never been known to raise his own blind before the flop. An average of eight of the players at the table see the flop. On the last hand one guy saw the flop for a single bet with
5/images/graemlins/club.gif5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif5/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif, then called a double bet after the flop of
7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, and then called a single bet after a turn of
7/images/graemlins/club.gif.
Usually you are the one who doesn't, see the flop, but on this particualr occasion one other player has folded, meaning that if you call (or raise), there will be eight of you seeing the flop. (I hope I've made it crystal clear that there is no guarantee that the aces are gone just because seven opponents will be seeing the flop here). What do you least want to be holding:
a. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif6/images/graemlins/club.gif
b. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif
c. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gif
d. A/images/graemlins/spade.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gifT/images/graemlins/club.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
My instinct is to fold here, but given that we can assume the other hands are almost as good as random, then I guess we can call. I will go with A as the most featureless/least desirable hand. You have essentially no shot at low against this many hands and the 69 is a lousier combo than 78s, 77, and 9T. This is probably much more like what the original poster had in mind for playability situations and in general I'd agree that AA69u is the worst of those hands.

[Buzz]

Fraubump - My point was that you like or dislike different hands in different situations.

One-on-one, I'd rather have a pair of aces with a chance at an A-6 or even A-7 non-nut low. Thus of the choices given, one on one, the hand I'd least like to have would be AA9Tn.

Against a full field, the poor non-nut A-6 low draw is almost useless. For a partial bet from the button, I'd still play all of those hands, but I like your choice (for least desirable) of AA69n.

Just my opinion.

Buzz