Evaluating results in Wilson's TTH

[monkey_love]

Can anyone suggest how I should interpret my results or how I could get the most out of my practice? I'm just using the default settings and I'm getting long losing and winning periods. Should I be consistently "beating" the lineup since they're not real people? My immediate problem is that I don't know if my play is improving or getting worse (I definitely improved when I first started playing). I am the least likely to see the flop, turn, or river and the least likely to win a pot.

Thanks for any thoughts.

[dragon14]

It seems to be generally agreed that the computer players on Wilson's TTH play poorly. That said, I believe that you should be beating the lineup if you are playing well. Two years ago I bought the program and read a little bit about poker and I was a consistent break even player. I was never more than +3,000 or -3,000. I eventually stopped playing and went back to studying. After rereading and understanding better HEPFAP over a period of time I began to play TTH again. This time I ran my winnings to 40000+. Two years ago when I played TTH frequently I believed that the computer players were extremely good at poker and I felt that the program was rigged. Now when I play I have a much better understanding of the game and have an easy time beating it. If you are unable to build up your winnings any significant amount over time you probably need to study your poker books more. I would play against the automatic adviser and once you consistently beating him you probably have an increased understanding of the game.

[toots]

I think beating the advisor is probably a good starting indication.

Right now, I'm trying to get used to the idea that the main reason I'd want a 300BB bankroll is that if I'm a good player, I can expect to see up to 300BB swings. That means a timespan considerably longer than a couple hour session with TTH in the evening.

As others have chided me elsewhere, in real life, determining whether I'm a good player or bad is going to take more than a few dozen hours. With TTH, those "hours" go by a bit faster, but we're still talking about a longer term than a one night session.

So, I've been doing two things:

1) Doing the challenge against the advisor. I beat it more often than it beats me. That's a sort of short-term confirmation that at least I didn't chase as badly as the advisor did.

2) I'm working on a really long-term saved game - something that I run for a few hours, save, then come back to the next day and pick up where I left off.

I was looking at the stats from my long term game and I saw I had a 69 hand dry streak during my first two thousand hands. Nice to see it there: I think I remember that as the time I was getting frustrated with the program. Imagine how I'd have felt if I had that very realistic scenario happen to me in a B&M, in real time.

So, I don't think the program's going to really improve my game by having extra tricky computer players or even a good advisor, but it is going to improve my game by giving me some idea of what real swings I can expect over a few dozen hours of real-life play.

And, of course, as I read more, I can always try out what I've read. I've been trying some of the ideas from Winning Low Limit Hold Em against some fo TTH's loose-passive and loose-aggressive lineups, as a way to illustrate what Jones is talking about.

[bigpooch]

If you can't crush any TTH lineup for 4BB+/100 hands, there
are probably leaks in your play or you aren't taking full
advantage of the abysmal play of your opponents. As an
exercise in quick play, I played 100,000 hands versus
various lineups on TTH in less than a month; the idea was to
make my preflop and flop decisions automatic.

I now have the benefits of being able to play five or six
5max or 6max tables quite easily; that is probably the
biggest benefit I have derived from TTH. The next most
important use of TTH is to run hand simulations. Just be
careful about any advice TTH gives you; it's often wrong!

[Lunamondo]

My turbo experience of the full ring game vs. a solid semi-tough lineup tells it's beatable for about one big bet per 60 hands as long as the rake (or time) is not more than one big bet per 60 hands.

[monkey_love]

OK, so I should be able to consistently beat TTH. Can anyone suggest how to identify the leaks? Are there some classic beginner mistakes that will appear in the statistics or something?

Thanks for any thoughts.

[dragon14]

The poker experts agree that the computer poker programs play poorly. However, I experienced quite a tough time trying to beat TTH for quite a while. What helped was much more reading of tight and aggressive play and experience playing against the program. After one has played tens of thousands of hands, a person is no longer surprised that their AQ and AJ lose all the time to AK. I don't think there is a quick fix to easily defeat the game, but I do feel that as you come to a higher understanding of poker that you will begin to show a steady improvement at the game and eventually your winnings (while not being constant) will be consistent and your general swing will be consistently upward. Keep in mind that a poker expert's opinion of what is easy to beat is based on years of experience and thinking about the game. Few people play at that standard and it takes quite a while to improve your game to the point that you are a consistent winner even at TTH.