Did I miss another value bet?

[Kluddeludde]

In the past week I've done some serious soul searching and realised that my biggest flaw (I say biggest, definately not only) in poker is that I value bet way to seldom. I thought I should post one hand that's been bugging me, so here goes.

I get dealt the black aces UTG + 2. UTG + 1 (very loose, plays any ace, any two suited cards, basically everything) calls and I raise. Everyone folds to the SB who reraises (I've never seen a guy play like this one. Once I saw him cap the turn and then fold to a single bet on the river. However, I know he has loose raising and limping standards and plays rather horribly postflop). The BB (no info on him) calls, as does the loose guy and I cap. Everyone calls. The flop comes

9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Everyone checks to me, I bet. The SB calls, the BB check-raises, loose guy calls and I 3-bet. Everyone calls to see the turn

5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Everyone checks to me, I bet and all call. The river is

8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Now there's a paired board and a 3-flush out. Everyone checks to me and I ponder whether I should bet. Should I?

By the way, feel free to comment on any of my other flaws. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kludde

[maurile]

I'm interested in reading other people's responses since I've got the same "biggest flaw" as you.

But I would have probably checked the river there as well. Against three opponents, this is a scary board when you only have a pair. The way the flop and turn were played, hearts could be waiting to check-raise you (although I would have bet the river myself if I had hearts).

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
Did I miss another value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think so. When I play I usually dont put someone on a flush or trips just because they checked. Dont be afraid of getting check-raised; you will make more than enough in calls when your hand is good here to cover the times you payoff a checkraise.

[Kluddeludde]

Hey again, and thanks for the replies!

SB in this hand showed A /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif (I told you he was crazy), BB had Q /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/diamond.gif (which I think he played rather good) and UTG + 1 shows A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and MHIG.

In retrospect, I think I should have bet this hand and not only because I now know what the others had, but because I think it was a clear value bet.

On a different note, the SB busted out a few hands later and left, to my great disappointment. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Kludde

[JohnShaft]

Did I miss another value bet?

IMO yes.

SB likely has big cards or a big PP, by definition no bigger than yours.

BB checkraises you on the flop. Most likely holding? Top pair, an underpair to AA, or some other vulnerable holding which makes him want others to fold. Unlikely holding? Two hearts. One he may have bet out, two, if he hadn't he should have capped the flop.
Loose guy calls. Well, he's loose, he could have anything and likely has nothing compared to you.

Turn. No reason to put anyone on a 5. If they have one the Turn is very likely to get CR. As it doesn't get CR it's likely no-one has the 5.
Loose guy, again probably calling with nothing and hoping. Absolutely no reason to put a loose guy here on the 5, espcially as he has the ideal opportunity to CR everyone on the Turn and just calls. No way he has the 5. Prolly drawing dead.

River, the flush hits. It's already declared unlikely BB has the flush. SB likely has a pocket pair or big cards *still*. Not likely the flush draw. Loose guy has just kept calling to get to the river. It's what he does. It's what he may well do again.

Analysis ends.
Result =
It's very unlikely anyone has the flush (given opponents and actions). It's even less likely anyone has the 5.

There are very few hands that actually beat you here that they are likely to have then. Very few.
After the flop no-one has shown any strength. They've reacted to your strenghth with "OK, you like your hand? I'll call then."

You absolutely MUST put a bet in here in LP when everyone checks to you.
Doubly so because you have 3 opponents and you are very likely to get a bet from at least two of them. If you get checkraised you call. The odds you aren't good here though are probably no more than 20-25%.

A real missed value bet with nut PP...
You didn't think enough about your opponents and your likely holdings. Don't just think "Oh well, I've gotten to the River, the pot is big enough, OK then I'll check guys, what you got?".

Make them *pay*.

[Kluddeludde]

Just wish I could do it in the heat of battle. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously though, when you put it that way it just seems so simple.

Kludde

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

I'm gonna go ahead and pose this question:

If you bet the river, do you fold to a checkraise?

I feel I pay off too much when this happens.