Question about 3/6 House Game w/ complete FISH!

Hello everyone. First time poster here who just discovered this board. First off, I would like to say that this board has been very educational and fun to read. Many of you have very excellent insight! Thank you!

Background: I am a moderate (not a fish, not a pro) Hold Em player who has been playing for about two years. I live in CO, so the mountain games are always close by and generally pretty good.

Question: I have been lucky enough to be invited into a 3 / 6 house game tonight that will be comprised of mostly complete fish and 2-3 players of my (or slightly) better caliber (9-10 total). Most will pay to see the flop with complete rags. Bluffing and wishful thinking abound. Their theory will be that it's a two card game and you should pay to see the flop ("because you never know!") I know that I should play moderately tight, but how would you guys play against complete morons? Some of these loose / aggresive idiots will have no idea what to do, and therefore junk my game. How would you play against these "players" who will stay in on just about anything? Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Of course, The game is tonight, so quick help would be great. I hope everyone is playing well and maybe I'll run into one of you in the mountain games! GAME ON!


Husker

"...I have been lucky enough to be invited into a 3/6 house game..."


as it's your first time, if you want to be popular and be invited back, you should play roughly the same way as the others


if they are all seeing every flop and you are seeing one in every ten you will soon start to stick out like a sore thumb, especially if you are winning their money, too


next time, or the time after that, you can devise your strategy to win a good long-term wage - i played stud for years with the same guys and i almost always won a few quid every week - i don't think they knew, nor really cared, because i joined in the fun, drank the beer, and didn't whinge when i lost a big hand


i also didn't try to get every chip on the table into my pile - as long as i won a certain amount then i went home happy, because i knew the game would be on next week and i would be in it


"...comprised of mostly complete fish..."

"...how would you guys play against complete morons..."

"...Some of these loose / aggresive idiots will have no idea..."


i'm not sure that you should speak of your potential future "paymasters" in those terms - i suspect you may have a bad attitude which, unfortunately for you, may show through in your game


i didn't think of the guys in my game like that, and i would certainly not have said those things about them


no offence, but maybe you should stick to casinos or on-line games?


"...maybe I'll run into one of you in the mountain games..."


forgive me, but i'll take a raincheck on that


good luck

You sound like an arogant fool who is posting to brag.

And if you can't adjust your game to the style of the player, you are more or less a fish.

Thanks for your advice Mike.

Sorry, if a few a my words didn't come out appropriatly. Most of these players are my good friends (outside of poker) and they have from time to time referred to me in the same context. It's just frustrating to have AA / KK / AKs in early position, try to play it correctly, and then get beat by a made 95o (because they didn't know any better). These are my friends, so I won't try to hurt anyone. Just trying to take my reasonably fair share. I don't bite the hand that feeds me. Have a good one and sorry if you got the wrong impression.

Does "I am a moderate (not a fish, not a pro)" sound arrogant to you? It doesn't to me. I am an "average" player, thank you. Most of the people on this board would probably clean me out if I gave you the chance. Would you not then refer to me as a "fish".

Furthermore, I am not "bragging" in any way. I am calling it like I see it. Would you not jump at the chance to enter this game and think the same thing? At least I am not a "fool" like those that "brag" about beating a pro (when they really didn't and made the story up). All I wanted to was a bit or two of advice. Thanks for the warm reception.

pod, Whoa man. Where's the bragging? Arrogant fool? I think maybe he either over estimates his poker prowess or underestimates his opponents. A classic beginner mistake. He's looking for advice--he got some from Mike. Where's your advice? I hear RGP is a flamers heaven--post this shit over there. Below is what I think of Husker's situation.


I played a home game that was incredibly weak for a long time and kept records on it. I won big 6 sessions in a row to start out and my cover was blown. They all noticed that I was cashing out for substantial amounts(for that game, anyway) and adjusted their games accordingly. Since then I win on a much smaller scale. So I agree with Mike. Don't create a bloodbath on your first night there.


Also, when I first started posting on this site, my posts had the same tone as yours. I thought of myself as a solid player, that tight play takes the money. Now I suspect I fall into the weak/tight classification. Read Ray Zee's essay at the top of the list on the essays link. Where are you on that list? I'm trying to move from ridiculously tight to a game with some imagination. Unfortunately, the limits I play reward tight play, so I have a hard time justifying mixing it up. Someday...

I suppose I was a "bit" harsh, but this is a problem many players face, I did myself, and most need a harsh wake up. I doubt he has "seen the light" yet. He probably still thinks he is a rounder and that I am a total jerk. Notice all he apologized for is demeaning the fish since it was rude. I can see the arrogance in the thought, if not the words. Better he learn some humility here than when he tries to move up limits.

I know you wrote you are an average player, but in my experience, nearly 20 years, beginners always think they are better than they are. If you can't adjust your game to the table, you are BAD.

Thanks Ripdog.

I read the essay and I would say that I am in the "tight" stage. In the beginning, I played exaclty like Ray describes it. After losing much, much money, I have tightned up and my game has improved. I do try and throw some imagination into my game when its appropriate. Every once in a while, I'll stay in on rags just to keep the others guessing. Being unpredictable is working pretty well.

Of course I am not immune to thinking my game is better than it really is. Who hasn't fallen into that trap? You learn from it after you have been rolled a time or two. There are always better players. Tonight's game might fall somewhere in between (I guess). Small fish is eaten by bigger fish and so on. That's life!

I'll give a truthful report of the action after the game. If I get it handed to me, then I'll tell it like it is. You can't improve in any way if you are not honest with yourself. If I do well, then I'll try to so with dignity.

Pod -

You know man, lay off! I am not going to apologize for something that I called completely fair. As I said in my opening post....I AM DECENT! I will apologize for calling my FRIENDS morons. They do it to me. It's called being friends. You tease each other from time to time. Do you honestly think that I say this crap at the table? I don't think I am a "Rounder". I don't think that you are a jerk. I do think that

you would take my shirt from me. I am sure you are better. Are you happy now? I don't play in very many home games. All I wanted was a bit of advice on how to play players that are mostly beginners. I can change my game to suit who I am playing against, but looking for a new way to view things, or asking for a trick or two that I haven't thought of is always good practice, don't you think? It's called l.e.a.r.i.n.g. to become b.e.t.t.e.r! I am trying to become a better player. What's wrong with that? So far, others have shared some advice and I thank them. Where's yours or do you only have critisism of semantics, like the word "fish"?

It seems to me that the most important thing to remember playing with people who are way too lose is this:


AA, KK, QQ, AK(o and s), AQ(o and s), and KQ (o and s) combined have, combined, about a 30% with rate in a seven-handed game if everyone sees the game to the river.


Why is that important? Because it means that more than 2 times out of 3, your "great" hands are going to get outdrawn by somebody playing something he "shouldn't."


If this is something you're going to have a problem with, if this is going to upset you, then you better find yourself a game with better players. It's easy to do the math--in the long run the above numbers are great for you (if you put the same amount of money in every time, this means you lose X 70% of the time, and win 6x 30 percent of the time--an extremely favorable proposition).


But time and time again you see players get outdrawn with KK and berate their opponents. This is (a) a great way not to be invited back to the game, and (b) dumb strategy. You want people playing Q7o, even if every so often that means you get outdrawn.


In the long run by strategy would be to be a little looser with suited connectors and one-gappers. This has two advantages. First, with a lot of people seeing the pot, you can be confident you'll get your odds, even in early position. Second, when you end up folding these after the flop, it will "cover" the fact that you're only playing solid hands. Raising for value with flush or straight draws is a great way to look a little wilder than you are: you're getting good odds for your money, but you still look like someone who raises on the turn and folds on the river--which makes you look more speculative than you are to inexperienced players.


I won't comment on whether or not you need to play below your ability the first night. There's no reason IMHO for you to not play to win, but I can understand why you might not want to win too big. The cards, however, might take care of that for you. Remember, if a lot of people are in the hands at the end, you /will/ get outdrawn.


In which case, all I can say is compliment your opponent. He's going to pay you back with interst for it, so make him feel good about how he played.

It's funny isn't it? The more you like and trust someone, the more you tend to slag them off! That's how my wife knows how much I love her. I think.


Good luck tonight - looking forward to reading your trip report.

So true....so true. That's what makes this type of game just fun to play in (even if you are losing). We know we are just giving each other a hard time, and nobody gets bent out of shape. You can get away with teasing a lot more, than you could at any casino game. Thanks for your thoughts and may the "cards be with you"!

I was thinking the same thing about the SC's and 1G's. IS IT GAME TIME YET? ARGHHHHH!!!!! Can't wait! This work day is taking forever!

Thanks for your thoughts.....and have a good one!


Trip report to follow tomorrow!

Loose poker players believe strongly in luck.


For tonight you should too.


If you win it's because you were lucky. If you start with AA and no one sucks out you got lucky.


If you flop a flush and you get callers to the river then you were lucky the others had decent hands along with you.


This gives them the feeling that next week they can get lucky, too.

I love fish....not the kind you eat of course /images/smile.gif

I play in a regular home game and even though for me I am a loosie goosie they still call me TAB (tight ass bastard) and this is because my preflop muck of 93s was accidently exposed 1 time.

I win the money but the variance is huge. I can go up or down a buy-in within an hour.


As for style here are my rules and they work for me:

Any position: any pp, Axs, Kxs, any two that equal 20 /images/smile.gif

Mid-pos: the above plus, 910s-76s,

Late-pos:the above plus, offsuit conctrs & 1 gap (stay above 56 since you will get conterfieted to often with lower cards)

As too agr level keep it a bit under the average player since you don't want to be see as the meanie, of course raise with the AA, KK, QQ but not with A9s even if you are gettting great odds.

Most importantly be happy win or lose, understand that the fish had to call you on the rvr with an underpair to the board, and laugh with them as the get lucky to catch 2 pair on the rvr with 82 when they say they just knew you had AA and they were in trouble.

DON"T TAP THE TANK.....in other words no matter where you are or what kind of game never upset the fish or correct their mistakes...."yeah you have to go to the rvr with 22 since you have a pair, he could bluff and you can still get that other 2" NOT " I can't believe you stayed with those cards...IDIOT"

Do we really want to play against perfect players....yuck sounds like chess for money (haven't seen that on ESPN yet)

You can win but the road to the bank is bumpy.

1 Leg Lance