steveyboy229
02-17-2004, 11:33 AM
OK, i know very little about playing omaha in tournaments. This hand came up. I didn't know what the best move was. You don't see much written about omaha tournament hands and i was wondering if anyone had any views.
Final table of an Omaha/holdem round of each tournament. B&M. 6/7 left. About 90K chips in play. Blinds are 1K-2K, (rising to 1.5-3 within the next round) Omaha being dealt (holdem in three hands time). You are in the small blind and have 7k in chips left after posting. This has you second lowest in chips, the UTG player is very short, looking like 3.5K left, the other remaing players range between 10K and 25K or so All fold round to the button. The button raises the pot, 7K to go. You look down and see [Ks Ko Js 9o]. What is your play?
The button has you comfortably covered, maybe having around 12K after his bet. The big blind is also comfortably chipped up with a similarly large stack. The raiser is a knowledgable player but one willing to gamble it up. He is certainly not tight and has been raising preflop at omaha most frequently of all the remaining players. You are very confident KKxx is good at the moment. If you are to put the raiser on a range of hands based on previous experience you would have to say at least three high connecting cards, ten or above, probably with at least one suited pair of cards, maybe even double suited. This sort of hand has been shown down by the raiser every time he has been called (typically things like KQJ-dangler ds) This does not feel like a total steal with trash (besides, the BB is capable & has too many chips to make this play sensible for the button). You are certain that you meagre reraise will be called if you move in.
(a) Call - doesn't seem sensible. The call is pot comitting so why not raise and get it over with. Even if the flop is very unfavorable to the raiser he will call your bet on the flop.
(b) Raise all in - let the cards determine your fate. If you win you will have ~17K in chips. Back in business and a very playable stack c.f. the remaining players. If the BB gets sucked in then you might even come out on top for 25K, although this appears a remote possibility after a glance down the line (BB is chatting to his mate behnind him and telegraphing a pass). KKJ9 isn't a bad holding to go to war with and you feel very confident it is the better hand at the moment. You need chips, what are you waiting for - AAKKds? springs to mind.
(c) Pass - Seems a bit tight but you can still make a pot sized raise if you let this hand go. If you can make a pot sized raise preflop, even if it is all in, you are still in shape. I am a firm believer in the statement 'the bettor be...' Raising with trash but giving all your opponents given the chance to fold is better than calling all in with a solid (but not exactly premium) holding. In holdem you can call all in with a chance of being a significant favorite (e.g. KK, QQ are no brainer calls) but in omaha you can never really be comfortably ahead, thus calling (or effectively calling) all-in seems a bit lame in comparison. Your hand is very vunerable even to a single ace on the flop let alone the numerous other outdraws possible. Not good for an omaha hand.
Still you have to make your play sometime and you might as well do it when there is a meaningful number of chips to win in the pot.
I moved in. I think it was a good decision, but as i say i'm not particularly experienced at omaha comps. that's why i'm asking. The call recieved a 'mixed' reception from other players, some thought it was good, others looked more dubious. This has left me thinking...
The outcome was rather irrelevant, i am interested in whether it was a smart move or not. I have tried to relate the situational facts of the hand as accurately and informatively as my terrible memory can.
Final table of an Omaha/holdem round of each tournament. B&M. 6/7 left. About 90K chips in play. Blinds are 1K-2K, (rising to 1.5-3 within the next round) Omaha being dealt (holdem in three hands time). You are in the small blind and have 7k in chips left after posting. This has you second lowest in chips, the UTG player is very short, looking like 3.5K left, the other remaing players range between 10K and 25K or so All fold round to the button. The button raises the pot, 7K to go. You look down and see [Ks Ko Js 9o]. What is your play?
The button has you comfortably covered, maybe having around 12K after his bet. The big blind is also comfortably chipped up with a similarly large stack. The raiser is a knowledgable player but one willing to gamble it up. He is certainly not tight and has been raising preflop at omaha most frequently of all the remaining players. You are very confident KKxx is good at the moment. If you are to put the raiser on a range of hands based on previous experience you would have to say at least three high connecting cards, ten or above, probably with at least one suited pair of cards, maybe even double suited. This sort of hand has been shown down by the raiser every time he has been called (typically things like KQJ-dangler ds) This does not feel like a total steal with trash (besides, the BB is capable & has too many chips to make this play sensible for the button). You are certain that you meagre reraise will be called if you move in.
(a) Call - doesn't seem sensible. The call is pot comitting so why not raise and get it over with. Even if the flop is very unfavorable to the raiser he will call your bet on the flop.
(b) Raise all in - let the cards determine your fate. If you win you will have ~17K in chips. Back in business and a very playable stack c.f. the remaining players. If the BB gets sucked in then you might even come out on top for 25K, although this appears a remote possibility after a glance down the line (BB is chatting to his mate behnind him and telegraphing a pass). KKJ9 isn't a bad holding to go to war with and you feel very confident it is the better hand at the moment. You need chips, what are you waiting for - AAKKds? springs to mind.
(c) Pass - Seems a bit tight but you can still make a pot sized raise if you let this hand go. If you can make a pot sized raise preflop, even if it is all in, you are still in shape. I am a firm believer in the statement 'the bettor be...' Raising with trash but giving all your opponents given the chance to fold is better than calling all in with a solid (but not exactly premium) holding. In holdem you can call all in with a chance of being a significant favorite (e.g. KK, QQ are no brainer calls) but in omaha you can never really be comfortably ahead, thus calling (or effectively calling) all-in seems a bit lame in comparison. Your hand is very vunerable even to a single ace on the flop let alone the numerous other outdraws possible. Not good for an omaha hand.
Still you have to make your play sometime and you might as well do it when there is a meaningful number of chips to win in the pot.
I moved in. I think it was a good decision, but as i say i'm not particularly experienced at omaha comps. that's why i'm asking. The call recieved a 'mixed' reception from other players, some thought it was good, others looked more dubious. This has left me thinking...
The outcome was rather irrelevant, i am interested in whether it was a smart move or not. I have tried to relate the situational facts of the hand as accurately and informatively as my terrible memory can.