AJo UTG hand

[Allan]

Very loose and weak party game.

I limp UTG with A /images/graemlins/heart.gifJ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. 4 others limp the sb comes along and the BB checks.7 to the flop

Flop comes A /images/graemlins/spade.gif9 /images/graemlins/club.gifT /images/graemlins/spade.gif checked to me I bet called around to the button who raises I 3 bet, the blinds fold and the callers call. 5 to the turn for 11 BB

turn is J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif bet called and the CO now raises. the button and the rest of us call.

river is 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif checked to the CO who now checks and the button bets. I call and fold to a raise from an EP player after the CO and button call the raise.

OK?

Allan

[Vehn]

yup

[Schmed]

I raise preflop.

[BottlesOf]

On that table, I muck pf.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
I raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second that.

[SpiderMnkE]

Sounds to me like you played this pretty well. I definately don't think this is a utg pf raise.. that is idiotic.

[dirty_dan]

Why would it be idiotic?

[1p0kerb0y]

I muck AJo UTG at any table, especially a loose table.

The rest looks good to me.

[coffee1]

dont raise preflop with that and dont call if its raised 2times behind you pre flop.

[coffee1]

the idea is if you give action like that, your going to get play from better aces than yours...would you cold call 2 bets preflop with A 10 or lower. then if you get action your behind...

[bernie]

preflop

i usually raise with it. the table has to be very passive for me to limp here. which is rare. but there is a concept about that. thought it's mainly for LP spots but i remember there was something about doing it in EP with offsuit big hands. but, it's just easier to raise. also, when on these tables, you have to be very wary of a raise behind you if it happens. usually these tables have very tight raising standards.

but i've folded this in this spot also. but that's usually early in a session when i dont have a real good line on most of my opponents play. the more i know them, the better i can play this hand in this spot.

i think you played it fine.

b

[SpiderMnkE]

Who is going to call your ep AJ raise that you are happy about. AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ... yeah.. thats hot.. raise up the roof.

Who might limp behind you, a lot of weaker aces

[SpiderMnkE]

Ok, I am agreeing with and restating the textbook response here, but I'd like someone to give me a reason to raise this hand UTG

[Dispatch]

I agree preflop. This is what I want my opponents to play under these conditions (weak & loose). Suited would be a different story.

I look at AJo UTG under these conditions as an opportunity to save money.

[spamuell]

I'd like someone to give me a reason to raise this hand UTG

Because the players behind you are so bad that they'll call you with AT, QJ, KJ, maybe even any Ax or Axs, A9o probably, I wouldn't be surprised to see J9o or J8o calling.

Basically, in a game where the players are really really bad pre-flop, definitely raise this hand.

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is going to call your ep AJ raise that you are happy about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Won't the bad players call and the good players fold? That would make me happy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[1p0kerb0y]

It is absolutely absurd to raise this hand preflop, when UTG. Here is why:

1. You don't have any information as to other hands out there
2. You are in horrible betting position
3. AJ is easily dominated by many other hands
4. It is likely you will make a second best hand that you have to pay off all the way

I won't play AJo in any of the early positions, nor will I call a raise with it from later positions.

[balkii]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is going to call your ep AJ raise that you are happy about. AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ

[/ QUOTE ]

If these were the only hands people called my UTG raises with I'd be a loser. But I routinely get called by many hands such as

Any sooted Ace
Any Ace
Any King
Any sooted cards
Any Queen
Jack-ten (always)
Any pocket pair, usually held by a player who is more than willing to go to showdown every time he has a pocket pair.

And these are in my usual game. When playing in a game that I would describe as loose and weak I imagine you will see many more hands coldcalling.

The reason why you can get away with this move is that you will get called by much worse hands, who will pay off the max when they are behind, and the times they are ahead, they will not charge you the max. They will rarely 3-bet you PF, which is your main concern when openraising a hand like AJo.

[1p0kerb0y]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who is going to call your ep AJ raise that you are happy about. AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



If these were the only hands people called my UTG raises with I'd be a loser. But I routinely get called by many hands such as

Any sooted Ace
Any Ace
Any King
Any sooted cards
Any Queen
Jack-ten (always)
Any pocket pair, usually held by a player who is more than willing to go to showdown every time he has a pocket pair.

And these are in my usual game. When playing in a game that I would describe as loose and weak I imagine you will see many more hands coldcalling




Where do you play at?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is going to call your ep AJ raise that you are happy about. AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ... yeah.. thats hot.. raise up the roof.

[/ QUOTE ]

played much cards?

you give your opponents too much credit for what they will cold call with. they could call with anything. and i mean, anything. and they do.

so yes, raise up the roof.

just because you or a somewhat studied player wouldnt. dont figure your opponents to think the way you do. they usually dont.

b

edit: besides, the hands you mentioned would/should be 3 betting behind you and not just calling

[balkii]

Party poker. Where else?

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Where do you play at?


[/ QUOTE ]

this happens in any cardroom regularly.

b

[bernie]

along with them calling anything suited or any 2 big cards. the range is usually very wide.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
It is absolutely absurd to raise this hand preflop,

[/ QUOTE ]

no it's not. you just have to be able to play it postflop. knowing the players behind you and their coldcalling standards will give you some of the info.

i wouldnt call a raise with it either. however, against certain players, id 3 bet it.

but, if you have trouble with it, fold it. it can be a pain to play.

b

[SpiderMnkE]

Well.. I've played only 800 hands of 2/4 so far. But man, it's a lot tighter here than .5/1 where maybe I could understand the raise.. well.. actually its worse there cuz unsuited big cards are worth crap.

But.. Its been very tough for me to find a Party game at 2/4 with an avg of 10BB per pot or more. It seems like the absolute best I can find is 8 or 9 BB pots.. and compared to .5/1 where I just came from this is ridiculously tight

[SpiderMnkE]

The good thing here though is that my big pairs and big aces are holding up a LOT more in these games. And it does seem like I get called down with trash a lot. Usually by 1 or 2 guys instead of 6.

I will admit that I am making adjustments at this level but AJo still doesn't seem like a utg raising hand. Maybe it is and I've been programmed wrong.

Although.. I still need convincing.. someone needs to give me some poker tracker stats on their AJo in ep and see if they are making money raising over any sig. amt of time

[Vehn]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It is absolutely absurd to raise this hand preflop,

[/ QUOTE ]

no it's not. you just have to be able to play it postflop. knowing the players behind you and their coldcalling standards will give you some of the info.

i wouldnt call a raise with it either. however, against certain players, id 3 bet it.

but, if you have trouble with it, fold it. it can be a pain to play.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for clearing that up. Another steller bernie moment.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
Who is going to call your ep AJ raise that you are happy about. AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are playing in a game where only the above hands will call your EP raises, find a different game.

Welcome to the forum,
Joe Tall

[GuyOnTilt]

I won't play AJo in any of the early positions, nor will I call a raise with it from later positions.

The only way I muck AJo UTG is if the table is tough for LL standards. Otherwise, I'm playing it. Whether I raise or limp depends on a lot of things, but I'll usually raise. At higher limit tables where your opponents are tougher, mucking AJo UTG is routine. After 1 or 2 folds though, I'm open-raising it almost all the time. If UTG limps, then mucking is alright, but not open-raising AJo from EMP would be giving up EV if you play well postflop.

Not calling raises with it is SOP.

GoT

[bernie]

[Schmed]

preflop. Personally I want to make the guy with the AX where the X is less than my J pay to catch his 2 pr or his flush draw and make the AQ fold. You're way ahead of the QJ, KJ, but you want to charge them to play and catch.

Lets say you're the guy sitting there with the AQ and you're looking at a tight agg utg raiser do you flat call??? Do you reraise?? Do you fold?? You may do any of the above. Now say you're the guy with the A10 what do you do there?? Fold?? Call?? Say you're suited, fold?? Call???

AK is not going to fold but AQ may and probably ought to. UTG raiser see AQ test. If you get reraised it's time to play good poker.

UTG AJo it's either raise or fold preflop. I have done both in the past week, game dependant.

[Schmed]

[ QUOTE ]
besides, the hands you mentioned would/should be 3 betting behind you and not just calling

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is the point that he is missing. So you flat call and an LP player raises, an A hits, you bet he raises, what do you do then...go in to check call mode?? Now you raise and you get reraised, you KNOW your A may not be any good.

In my opinion AJo is a marginal hand to be playing in that position but if you are going to play it you have to play it aggressively. AK is never folding but you may be able to get AQ out of the hand.

[Schmed]

don't play this hand UTG