My ace-ten hand

[mikelow]

40-80 at the Commerce. I have A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 10/images/graemlins/heart.gif in the small blind. Four limpers and I just complete. Sorry, Clarkmeister, I practice what I preach. BB checks. Flop is:

K/images/graemlins/club.gif 10/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

I check and there is a bet from a loose player UTG. Three callers and I just call BB folds. Turn is:

[K/images/graemlins/club.gif 10/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif] 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

I checked again. UTG checks, another check and a unknown player in MP bets. Two calls to me. I just called. Comments?

[Clarkmeister]

I hope you can see the difference between the following two scenarios:

1. 3 terible players who raise good hands and otherwise play any two cards, with a tight BB.

2. 4 presumably average players and an average BB.

It is this type of mindset that hampers a ton of posters here. They think about holdem in terms of "hands" and not "situations".

Your passive, uninspired postflop play follows from that kind of mindset. Why wouldn't you bet the flop here? Why not bet the turn? Now you are stuck with no clue where you are at on the expensive street in a pot that is suddenly too big to fold with a hand that, if best, desperately needs protection. The river isn't going to get any easier as any card other than a 7 that is below a ten forces you into calling the river as well.

You are playing blind at this point, and that's no way to attack a multiway situation.

[elysium]

hi mike
the pre-flop call is o.k. keep in mind though that these opponents are not going to make many mistakes against you, and that whatever is shown-down here will be a little stronger than usual. no one is bluffing or semi-bluffing. you have had a couple nice wins the few hands you got into them with this session, and they expect that shortly you will use your image to bluff them off their hand. the thing is now you realize that and they know that you realize that. what they don't know is whether or not the fact that they will be showing down a slightly stronger hand in this spot will itself be used by you to bluff or initidate you into betting only reasonable hands given this situation. and this can be very, very good for you.

once the thinking process reaches a certain level as opponents try to outwit one another, the individual poker player suddenly and surprisingly finds himself in the middle of a strategic religious experience. in other words, as each poker player makes his strategic contribution requiring his opponent's thought process to rise higher and higher, he inevitably reaches, or forces his opponents to reach, a poker plateau whose thinking level is so high, not a player at the table understands it, including he himself. and thus, the whole table as one is absorbed into strategic theology, the only difference being that now one opponent doesn't comprehend the other anymore, and all appear to be speaking in tongues.

when the level of thinking reaches this plateau mike, you will be called, but not raised. you should have a hand that is slightly stronger than average and you should be leading, not looking to check-raise. in this situation where you will be called, but not raised, you must strongly consider the possible over-callers. the more there are, the stronger your hand needs to be. if you do figure to be in the lead if called in several spots, then bet, even if you don't figure to be in the lead if raised and would otherwise check-call or check-raise.

so whensoever the table has reached a level of thinking that gently shepards you into this theological realm, what your opponent is saying is that he will call you, but he will not raise you, because whether or not you know it, he's not beholding your tongue anymore than you're beholding his; nonetheless you're hearing him tell you that he will call and not raise you, and he you.

when the MP....oh alright, when judas bets out on the turn, he hears the same message the rest of the flock is hearing. judas too mike expects to be called, albeit not raised. he must have you beat here, and i think that folding on the turn is correct.

sometimes your the preacher, and other times your in the pew. consider your contribution in this one a tithe.

[HiatusOver]

Bet the flop

[Ulysses]

Yuck. Seems like, if you are ahead, you're doing the best possible job of minimizing your chances of being ahead at the end.

[mikelow]

Three of us left. River was the (lucky):

[K/images/graemlins/club.gif 10/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif] 10/images/graemlins/club.gif.

I bet and MP raises. The other player folded and I three-bet. MP called and showed (surprise!) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.

I did play it badly--should have raised on the flop or turn.
Anyway, my five-outer got there.

[andyfox]

"sometimes your the preacher, and other times your in the pew. consider your contribution in this one a tithe."

Nobody can say it better than this. All other comment is superfluous.

[Grahamkashi]

I would normally fold after so many callers. What you guys think?