Flopped Quads....what's my play?

[foobar]

Hey all,
$30 s&g at stars....early in the tourney: blinds 10/20, all stacks about equal. I get 66 in the cutoff.

UTG limps, fold to me, I limp, button folds. SB completes, BB checks.

Flop comes Q66, 2 spades. Check to me, I let it go by, hoping somebody somebody improves. Turn comes 10h. Check to me, I make it 60 to go. All fold.

Questions are...what do you think about the check on the flop? Should I have let it go again on the turn, and hoped that somebody caught on the river?

Thanks for input.

[Bozeman]

I would either bet the flop or the river, but not the turn. It looks less like you are slowplaying a big hand that way.

[CrisBrown]

Hi foobar,

Unless someone has AQ or QQ, or you're lucky enough to have a fish who's feeling especially fishy, you've probably won all you're going to win in this pot. I'd check it all the way to the river, in the hopes that someone catches up with me and will make a stab at it. If not ... oh well....

Cris

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

Unless someone has AQ or QQ, or you're lucky enough to have a fish who's feeling especially fishy, you've probably won all you're going to win in this pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think there are a lot more hands that will pay off little bets here: KQ, QJ, QT, JT, AT, and other pocket pairs.

Doesn't change the play though: keep checking and see what happens on the river. You're in good position so this is the optimal way to play it. Let them bite first.

Guy.

[OneStuckFish]

I hope everyone plays flopped quads as you guys suggest.

[AleoMagus]

I would not check this flop. I think you should make a minimum bet here.

First of all, anyone with the spades draw will call, or even raise for a free card. Also, plenty of fish will call a minimum bet here with even one overcard and many will raise because a minimum bet looks weak here.

Another advantage to this bet is that if someone catches on the turn or river, the pot is that much bigger and therefore, you can get bigger bets later in the hand. If the pot is only 60 chips, who cares if they do catch when it has been checked all the way to the river. You are only looking at getting a pot sized bet out of anything but the nut flush here. A huge reraise is just too suspicious and will be folded to.

If you can get another 20 from one caller on the flop, then you can probably get another 40 on the turn. Betweeen the two of you, this makes for three times as much by the river. Now, small flushes or even top pair might be willing to put a lot more money in with a much smaller hand.

If the turn is blank, I might consider checking there, but I'd still probably put in another 40 bet at this point.

One of the biggest weaknesses people have in poker is too much hope. Put in the bets while they still have it, and might pay to see more cards. Once you get to the river, they have seen everything and they know that their hand is not getting any better. They aren't going to bluff at a 60 chip pot, and even if they do, it isn't going to be much.

That's what I think anyways.

Regards,
Brad S

[PrayingMantis]

It (somewhat) depends on the opposition, but I like to bet into dangarous flops, when I have *the* monster. People will often enough see this as a steal, and call/raise (here and later) with much worse hands, than if it was only checked to them. I just want to make them feel they might be ahead of me with their TT, or whatever. A danagarous flop that is checked all around, makes people nervous. I don't want my opponents nervous here. I want them calm and confident. I think these kinds of hands are more "psychological" than most others.

It just doesn't seem "reasonable" for quads to bet the flop. That's why it's a good play, IMO. Later on, I can represent weakness, and much easily induce a bluff. The fact that the pot will be bigger should help too.

Besides, betting the flop won't push out anyone who *does* have something - so why *not* bet it?? And if all others really have absolutely zilch and fold - then that's poker... Bad timing for your quads.

Only my thoughts,

PrayingMantis

[Pitcher]

Hi All,

I am with Praying Mantis. I would make a min bet on the flop. This is almost always (and frequently incorrectly) seen as a sign of weakness, someone taking a stab with 3rd pair or A high or some other weak holding. Many will call.

One thing I don't like...sorry to be a bit controversial here...is this quote

[ QUOTE ]
I hope everyone plays flopped quads as you guys suggest.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have a much better suggestion that the rest of us can learn from, please make it.

Regards,

Pitcher

[Guy McSucker]

I really think checking it back is best here.

Our hero is last to act. Everyone has checked. There is only one flop card that could have paired anyone. It looks like nobody has anything; let them catch up.

These guys are not trapping, unless someone has the full house, in which case it makes no difference what you do anyway. If they're not trapping, they're not going to raise if you bet, and it's hard for them to have enough to call with.

Similar thoughts apply on the turn. You can bet in the hope someone calls on a flush draw, as AleoMagus said, and that will sometimes pick up more chips than letting them miss their draw. It's more likely that nobody has anything and they won't call.

Also, a bet from the last player to act on the river, after everyone has checked three times, will look very suspicious: I think people will look you up with anything ace-high or better. Giving them the chance to make the hand is the best way to play it.

It's our position that makes it so. Out of position, it's much harder to know how to play, and a bet on the flop or turn might get someone to raise you as a bluff.

Guy.

[PrayingMantis]

Guy,

I disagree, at least if we're talking about the games I play in (mainly 22$ SNGs). The fact that you are last to act makes it look *even more* as if you are trying to steal here, on a dangarous flop. People might call you with weak Q, pairs, even Ax, that they were afraid to bet first. Not to mention somebody aggressive enough with QT, say, might even raise you if he thinks you're bluffing.

Besides, why would you want someone to try and catch the flush for free, and then if he doesn't catch it - to fold? Make him pay for his draw! that might be the only $$ you'll see here... If he catches - great! if not, you gained something too.

I really cannot see a reason why not betting the flop here. Draws will call you, pairs will, so essentially they will all come with you to the turn and river, and hopefully improve (pairs might catch a trip, the flush hits, etc.).

I would consider not betting the flop if I was EP, and thought someone ahead of me is aggressive enough to bet. Otherwise, I bet even from EP. Don't see any reason why not.

As a rule, for myself, I really try not to SP anything too much. Of course, betting the flop too big here is stupid, but from my expirience (and from reading here of course), trapping is more complicated than just SP by checking. This is too obvious. Unless against very specific opponents, that you read well.

Only my opinion,

PrayingMantis

[foobar]

Thanks to all for the comments. I suppose the part of my play I was really uncomfortable with was the bet on the turn. I figured on the flop that check was OK because it's likely anybody w/ Q or pocket pair would have bet into me.

3xBB is my standard bet, so my thinking on the turn was that any other bet makes other players nervous. I figured the standard bet on the turn could pretty easily look like a position play and maybe somebody fires back at me on a steal. Anyhow, after reading comments, I think if I end up in that situation again, I check it down to the river and hope. Thanks again for input.