Party poker colluders (long)

[TxSteve]

hi all..this is a repost from the internet board..but i wanted to be sure these bozo's find it difficult to find a game:

So..i sit down at a 5/10 full ring game..and see immediately some insane action from two guys sitting next to each other several hands in a row...so i sit out...and watch...

this action continues...capping more than i've ever seen at a table...driving other players out..

one guy had 1500 or so dollars...the other 750 or so..both pretty high for a standard 5/10 game

the one hand that really caught my eye was capped action preflop, postflop, turn and river...the only other person in the hand dropped at the river

they bet and raised each other..with the larger stack folding rather than call the capped bet on the river...so he had 110$ in the pot...but chose not to call the last 10$...pretty suspicious..

so i sit down and play this hand:

***** Hand History for Game 387035852 *****
5/10 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Wed Feb 11 20:15:20 EST 2004
Table StayingAlive (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Prophet00 ( $250)
Seat 2: bm259 ( $119)
Seat 3: toledobull ( $110)
Seat 5: joefloss ( $715)
Seat 6: drewie2 ( $1564)
Seat 7: TxSteve ( $110)
Seat 8: jgh3714 ( $400)
Seat 9: pistolpete34 ( $250)
Seat 10: bkfnhurts ( $111)
bm259 posts small blind (2)
joefloss posts big blind (5)
TxSteve posts big blind (5)
jgh3714 posts big blind (5)
pistolpete34 posts big blind (5)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TxSteve [ 8d, Jd ]
drewie2 raises (10) to 10
TxSteve calls (5)
jgh3714 folds.
pistolpete34 calls (5)
bkfnhurts folds.
bm259 folds.
joefloss raises (10) to 15
drewie2 raises (10) to 20
TxSteve: like that
TxSteve calls (10)
pistolpete34 calls (10)
joefloss calls (5)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qd, 4d, Js ]
joefloss bets (5)
drewie2 raises (10) to 10
TxSteve calls (10)
pistolpete34 calls (10)
joefloss raises (10) to 15
drewie2 raises (10) to 20
TxSteve calls (10)
pistolpete34 calls (10)
joefloss calls (5)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Kd ]
joefloss bets (10)
drewie2 raises (20) to 20
TxSteve calls (20)
pistolpete34 folds.
joefloss raises (20) to 30
drewie2 raises (20) to 40
TxSteve calls (20)
joefloss calls (10)
** Dealing River ** : [ 7s ]
joefloss bets (10)
drewie2 raises (20) to 20
TxSteve raises (30) to 30
TxSteve calls all-In.
joefloss raises (30) to 40
drewie2 calls (20)
Creating Main Pot with $374 with TxSteve
** Summary **
Main Pot: $374 | Side Pot 1: $20 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Qd 4d Js Kd 7s ]
Prophet00 balance $250, sits out
bm259 balance $117, lost $2 (folded)
toledobull balance $110, sits out
joefloss balance $615, bet $120, collected $20, lost -$100 [ Th Ad ] [ a straight, ten to ace -- Ad,Kd,Qd,Js,Th ]
drewie2 balance $1444, lost $120 [ 4c 3h ] [ a pair of fours -- Kd,Qd,Js,4c,4d ]
TxSteve balance $374, bet $110, collected $374, net +$264 [ 8d Jd ] [ a flush, king high -- Kd,Qd,Jd,8d,4d ]
jgh3714 balance $395, lost $5 (folded)
pistolpete34 balance $210, lost $40 (folded)
bkfnhurts balance $111, didn't bet (folded)

i'm no expert player...or even good...i never would have called all those bets if i didn't think they were colluding...

in my eyes...there is no doubt about their actions..after this hand i voiced my feelings to the table..and both joefloss and drewie2 immediately left the table..

i have reported this and am awaiting a response..

are these guys just completely incompetent or what?

[LivingLegend58]

Not incompetent, just immoral. That sucks man but there isn't really that much you can do.

[Tosh]

Whether they colluded or not they put you on big time tilt. There is NOWAY you should be playing this hand, noway at all. J8s is very little at the best of times but here its even worse. It also appears you posted UTG+1, equally terrible.

This is not how you play against these players, besides if you strongly believe them to be colluding report them straight away.

[TxSteve]

**UPDATE FROM PARTY***

i agree...i did not play well..right...smart...or any form of the above..

here is a respone i got from party..surprising fairly quickly...less than 12 hours after report...i must admit i got more detailed info than i expected:

Hi Steve,
I pulled your email out of investigations so that I could personally respond to you about the hand that you reported. I have informed the investigations team not to respond to you, so this will serve as a response to your email.
I did some extensive investigating of the two accounts that were involved in the hand that you sent. From the start it was obviously suspicious, and at first glance looked like collusion. The hand that you reported was definitely of concern. But after looking further it was apparent that this was not a typical case of collusion. One of the accounts was created 2 weeks ago. That player had deposited a small amount and played some smaller limit games. Last night the second account was created and that player deposited a large amount of money. After those deposits went through these two accounts played a total of 40 hands together (one of which you sent). In those 40 hands these two player raised and reraised every opportunity. It was obvious after looking at these hands that they did not care what two cards either of them held. Their goal was to raise everyone out and hope that the account they were trying to get the money to (the one that didn’t make the large deposits) won the pot. What you saw in the hand you reported was rare, where one of them actually HAD a hand. To give you a better idea of what I am talking about, take a look at this hand:

***** Hand History for Game 387027292 ***** 5/10 TexasHTGameTable (Limit) - Wed Feb 11 20:10:26 EST 2004 Table StayingAlive (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button Total number of players : 6 Seat 1: tazdep8 ( $45) Seat 4: danucht ( $0) Seat 5: joefloss ( $606) Seat 6: drewie2 ( $1598) Seat 7: TxSteve ( $110) Seat 9: ava80 ( $250)
tazdep8 posts small blind (2)
joefloss posts big blind (5)
** Dealing down cards **
drewie2 raises (10) to 10
tazdep8 folds.
joefloss raises (10) to 15
drewie2 raises (10) to 20
joefloss calls (5)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Td, 7d, Jc ]
joefloss bets (5)
drewie2 raises (10) to 10
joefloss raises (10) to 15
drewie2 raises (10) to 20
joefloss calls (5)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ Qs ]
joefloss bets (10)
drewie2 raises (20) to 20
joefloss raises (20) to 30
drewie2 raises (20) to 40
joefloss calls (10)
** Dealing River ** : [ 7c ]
joefloss bets (10)
drewie2 raises (20) to 20
joefloss raises (20) to 30
drewie2 raises (20) to 40
joefloss calls (10)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $241 | Rake: $1
Board: [ Td 7d Jc Qs 7c ]
tazdep8 balance $43, lost $2 (folded)
toledobull balance $110, sits out
danucht balance $0, sits out
joefloss balance $727, bet $120, collected $241, net +$121 [ Ks 2d ] [ a pair of sevens with king kicker -- Ks,Qs,Jc,7d,7cKs(kicker card) ]
drewie2 balance $1478, lost $120 [ 3s 4d ] [ a pair of sevens -- Qs,Jc,Td,7d,7c ]

Most of the hands that they played together looked like the one above, where they raised and reraised simply for the purpose of moving money form one player to the other.
This is a classic case of what is referred to as "money dumping". Money dumping is usually done with a stolen credit card or stolen account where the goal is to get money from the account with the stolen funds to a legitimate account so that player can cash out.
What is not classic about this case is that they chose to try to do it in games with other players involved. Classic cases of money dumping usually happen at an empty table where both of the accounts sit down and dump from one to the other.
By attempting to do this in a game with other players involved, these two accounts actually did something that benefited the players involved. Why do I say this...because in attempting to dump the money they actually lost almost $2,000 in 40 hands!
To say that these two people were stupid would be an understatement.
We have blocked the two accounts and suspended the funds that are remaining in the accounts. Luckily they were not able to cash out anything and the case was stopped before any further damage could be done. Coincidentally, when I went to the investigations team about this case (with the hand history that you sent), I was informed that they were already looking into the two accounts because of the suspicious nature of their play. By the time you had reported it the two accounts had been closed.
I will say this, there is always the possibility that these two guys just like to gamble and blow off money, it actually does happen. But I would doubt that was the case here.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. These cases are treated seriously and it is because of players like you that these cases are stopped soon.

I have added $50 to your account for reporting these players. I know its not much, but its just a small way to say "thanks".

If you have any questions or concerns don’t hesitate to send me an email.

[37offsuit]

Wow, that's a pretty thorough response and a nice added bonus that they tossed you some money.

[SoBeDude]

Wow thats got to make you feel great.

Not only did they take the issue seriously, but they took the effort to write quite a detailed and specific reply.

...And they gave you fifty bucks!

It's reassuring that they're taking these things seriously.

Now if they handle the bot situation with equal confidence I'll be really happy.

-Scott

[MRBAA]

Here's support for those of us who believe that big sites like Party make SO MUCH MONEY from raking legit games that they are strongly interested in keeping them legit and will make an effort to do so.

[unome]

I know we never want to jump the gun and falsely accuse anyone of wrong doing at the tables, but i think you should always report anything remotely suspicious.

You did good. Thank you from all of us who play regularly at Party.

[TwoNiner]

Great response by PartyPoker, and great job to you for turning the clowns in.

[PokerNoob]

Hopefully, these two retards are prosecuted for credit card fraud. I would imagine anybody stupid enough to chip dump in this manner would also give real information for the cash out.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Well you made a COLLOSAL mistake by discussing it at the table, thus alerting the cheaters that they were being noticed cheating.

What you SHOULD do is immediately GET THE HAND NUMBER(S) and send email to support, and also get on the horn with live support. Send the email first because live support is very unreliable.

NEVER tip off the cheaters that you are aware of what they are doing by discussing it at the table. Obviously you alerted them here and they went running. BAD.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

YOU FOOLS. HERE THE MOTHER SHIP IS HOVERING OVER US EVERY DAY, CONTROLLING PARTY VIA **OUR** COMMUNICATIONS SATELLITES, AND YOU OBLIVIOUS PEOPLE BUY THIS **NONSENSE** WITH THIS FICTICIOUS EMAIL LIKE THEY SUPPOSEDLY CARE ABOUT *YOU*!! LIES, PURE LIES! HAVEN'T YOU EVER SEEN THE MOVIE "They live" ??? /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, I think it's great that they not only closed the accounts of these two dirtbags, but paid off the guy who reported it. I always do report it, and don't expect any cash for it when I do, but I shall be all that much more dilligent from here on out.

al

[TxSteve]

well..when i opened my mouth at the table...they had capped every street probably 5 out of 7 hands...there was more than enough evidence to put them away already..

and as Mr. Party Poker said...they dropped almost 2k in 40 hands..now THAT is aggressive poker