One more hand post: snowmen

[Nate tha' Great]

Sorry to hog the forum, but I have to keep up with davidross proxy hands.

SB here is on the LAG side. We've played at the same table a number of times, and I believe that he has pretty good respect for me.

Party Poker 10/20 (6 handed)
NateThaGreat has 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif and is MP1

UTG limps, NateThaGreat raises, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls

Flop(7 SB): J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB bets, UTG calls, NateThaGreat raises, SB calls, UTG calls

Turn(6 1/2 BB): 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, NateThaGreat bets, SB calls, UTG calls

River(9 1/2 BB): 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, UTG checks, NateThaGreat bets, SB calls, UTG folds

Okay. Obviously, this one turned out well. But a lot of hands like these don't turn out so well. It's becoming such an instinct for me to raise the flop with any hand that has a reasonable shot of winning that I'll often find myself taming my opponent into passivity, but showing down a second best hand.

Also, does anybody take the free card on the turn? I felt like it wasn't *that* bad a bet in terms of EV, and I wanted to keep the pressure on my opponents in the event that they were on flush or overcard (?) draws.

[daryn]

fold to the flop bet


ok so 3 people called $20 preflop, and $10 from the bb.. so there's $70 in there, then sb bets, utg calls.. $90 in there, you're getting 9-1. i'm pretty sure you don't have the best hand here.. so you're really looking to hit an 8. 22-1 against.. yeah i'd fold.

[gonores]

Bwah? Fold to flop bet? You don't think there is at least a reasonable chance that these two players have a combination of smaller pairs and draws? You said it yourself, that pot isn't small. You gotta see this one through if the board doesn't develop in any threatening way.

My general line here is to showdown as quick as possible. Raise the flop, bet the turn, check/call the river...if you are against pretty predictable opponents, any more aggression and you'll probably know you're beat.

[stripsqueez]

this looks routine to me

folding the flop is possible but in my view a rare play - i think you are a strong chance to be in front on the flop particularly when there is a flush draw - if the SB had 3 bet the flop and i thought he was loose and aggressive i would cap

i bet the turn - i'm not sure about exactly why its right to bet the turn - one thing is that i think its right to always protect your upside - your upside on this hand is that your opponents hit second or third pair on the flop or have a flush draw - that means its definately right to bet

if you check the turn then wouldnt that be inconsistent with raising the flop ? - ie you raised the flop because you thought you were a good chance to be in front and the turn card didnt change that view - i understand that checking the turn is supposed to cater for the fact that you may of been wrong about being in front on the flop but in my simplistic view compromise is usually wrong and in any event a dangerous mindset, so i dont cater for it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Your Mom]

Folding the flop seems about as weak-tight as you can get. In 6 max, when the blind bets out, you just automatically give him credit for top pair? I sure as hell don't.

[daryn]

i guess my thinking was it's just tougher to have the best hand here when you're facing a bet and an overcall

[Schneids]

The SB is a little on the LAG side, so that flop bet can be as little as T9c or something like that. The call, to me, says overcards or NOT top pair. Folding here seems totally wrong. Moreover, as you and others have already stated, the pot is becoming large. I'd definitely raise.