If you are a mid-limit player in Los Angeles….

[Rick Nebiolo]

…check out this (http://tinyurl.com/2uxc8) Speed Racer RGP thread titled “Should the Nits, Old Men, Rocks, and Nut Peddlers Take Their Action to the Commerce Top Section?” regarding the probable impact of the change from time collection to drop in the Commerce yellow chip games.

Note that this thread is currently active so my Google link won’t include the latest RGP posts (since Google only scans and archives newsgroups about three times a day). If you have set up a proper newsreader (e.g., Agent, Outlook Express) use that or go to the web based RGP access at www.recpoker.com (http://www.recpoker.com) for the latest. Using recpoker you may have to scroll a bit as the first post went up on February 9th.

Regards,

Rick

[Phat Mack]

Does LA in fact have a pool of Rocks clocking the games, waiting to pounce?

[Rick Nebiolo]

Although there are some rocks, nits and nut peddlers currently playing mid limits in Los Angeles more will develop over time with the introduction of drop. In regards to this topic I wrote the following post in the above linked thread which isn't available through Google yet (it should be tonight). Since I wrote it I suppose I can reprinted it here /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Speed Racer wrote in part:

>>Actually, most nits, rocks, weak tights and old men won't play KJ, KQ,
>>or QJ unless they get to play them in the blinds for free or a half
>>bet or 6+ people have limped in front of them.
>>
>>They also don'e play TT in early postion and muck them in middle and
>>late position when the pot is raised in front of them. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barbara Gallamore then wrote in response to Speed Racer:

>You couldn't be more wrong. Where are these nut peddlers? Most old men I know
>play really bad. In fact, they're my favorite opponents. Speedy, you label
>players to fit your thesis, but you're wrong.

I then responded an hour so ago:

Speed Racer may be one to overuse stereotypes and engage in hyperbole
but with a change from time collection to per hand drop in middle
limits expect a higher proportion of nits, rocks, and nut peddlers to
infest the games. This change in the style of games is inevitable and
it will hasten over time.

Nits, rocks, and nut peddlers may move into town from nit havens such
as Las Vegas or develop from the existing base of residents and
players. As Speed Racer more or less explained, the current Los
Angeles area everyday regular "marginal action player" may become more
of a nit, rock or nut peddler when it dawns on him that if he doesn't
play marginal hands or marginal situations he won't pay drop as often.
The still looser regular or semi-regular player who otherwise doesn't
pay much attention to collection may then fold his 9-6 suited preflop
when he sees that he can't win a big multi-way pot. Now the real
gambler may pass on the game (or leave it early) when he sees the pots
are small. The trend to tighter games filled with a higher
proportion of nits, rocks and nut peddlers will take time and
sometimes be interrupted by other factors (as it is now with the
infusion of new blood due to the success of the WPT and WSOP on
television) but it is otherwise inexorable. Conversely, expect the
remaining base of "action players" to slowly gravitate towards the
card clubs that keep time collection for middle limits and above.

Of course the nits, rocks and nut peddlers may or may not be "old men"
or even "old white men" as described in this previous Speed Racer
post: http://tinyurl.com/224wc In a multi-cultural arena such as Los
Angeles we can expect to find the nit, rock, nut peddler stereotype
within various ages, genders and ethnic groups.

BTW, I don't believe Speed Racer was racist in his depiction. My own
observation is that you have many "old white men" who have retired and
moved into inexpensive Las Vegas homes and apartments in large part to
spend their remaining days in large part playing a certain style of
poker that is anathema to the Los Angeles based player. As Speed
Racer hilariously wrote in the above linked post they sit six deep in
the typical game and "take turns playing one hand per hour heads up on
the flop against a guy from Iowa who doesn't know what a dominated
hand means".

Speed Racer notes that most of the existing base of Los Angeles
players doesn't think this is much fun. Although I'm marginally old,
almost a "blue blood" by Los Angeles standards, and tend to be
somewhat tight and sometimes a nut peddler (I deny being a nit), I
agree.

Regards,

Rick

[Phat Mack]

Let's say that the Commerce eliminated all charges and let the players play for free. What would happen?

PS: In the past, when games have been changed from rakes to time charges, I've been recruited by rocks to help them lobby for a reversal of the change. They always argue that it hurts the "good" player. By "good," they mean "tight."

[Ulysses]

His argument and yours both definitely make logical sense. However, FWIW, at the two cardrooms closest to me (LC and AJs, which are minutes apart), one has a drop 15-30 and the other has a time 20-40. There's no increased nit concentration in the 15-30. Of course, these are also two games where the core player base (different players) in each lobbied successfully to have another dollar dropped to take part in the jackpot.

[Phat Mack]

one has a drop 15-30 and the other has a time 20-40.

I wonder if this points to the strongest factor in determining nit concentration being the blind structure. (I'm assuming that the blinds in the 15-30 are 10, 15.)

[limon]

during the early mid 90's the games in the bay area were sooooo good it was just ridiculous. When the economy cooled the games cooled. L.A. has a booming economy and loose money will prevail in these games regardless of the rake. In the 10-10 pl game you have to play against a line up of 4-5 world class players at any given time, that's a serious rake yet they just keep coming out of the woodwork to lose more and more. the econonomy in LV is a WEEKEND economy. there is no weekday money in that town. on the weekends the 15-30 at bellagio is as good as any game on the planet, and the 2-5 nl game at monte carlo is totally off the charts. if the palms starts spreading NL as advertised these games will be beyond good, i see alot of Maloof steakhouses in my future. you cant compare a weekend economy to one that goes 24/7 the rake has little to do with the action.

[mike l.]

you rgp people are all completely high. the time drop will change nothing. it will help the tight sensible players like you rick, and only hurt the loose awful players a tiny bit.

after all what difference will $20-$40 extra a night more cost the typical awful 20-40 player who comes in with $1000 to lose, proceeds to play for 2-10 hours until it's all gone, and then leaves and comes back in a few days and does it all again? and once every 10-15 times maybe he wins $2000 and has to leave because his wife asks him to come home at that very moment, so he leaves thinking about how good a player he is. the time drop will not have any noticeable effect on these types of players of which there are many (thank god).

the player who may suffer a little (and i do mean a little) bit more is the break evenish wannabee. and his swings are generally so big and his bankroll so inconsistent that he will never notice the difference either.

so the whole debate is nonsense. good players will benefit a little from pot collections, and bad losing players wont notice any difference, and that's all that matters to us. the games down here in oceanside are $4 pot drop and they are as loose and un-nitlike as can be imaginable. every single player plays much looser than is correct and even the best players (like me) have severe leaks in their game. and, i have to say, being able to get up and take a walk and not feel like the walk is costing you $5 really helps one want to play longer sessions.

[mike l.]

"Let's say that the Commerce eliminated all charges and let the players play for free. What would happen?"

the obvious answer is that all the players who are conscious of the rake would go play at commerce. that would include almost all winning players and most break-even/small winners/small losers, and a few chronic/big losers. but most big losers just go to the closest place or where they feel comfortable. so places like HP or hustler or the bike would have less games, but they would be the best games ever and probably worth paying to play in.

[Ed Miller]

But AJs is still a button charge, not a rake, correct? That's completely different.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
But AJs is still a button charge, not a rake, correct? That's completely different.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I don't think you can take a rake in California, so I assume the drop referred to in this thread is a button charge.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
But AJs is still a button charge, not a rake, correct? That's completely different.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't been up to northern California in years so I don't know. I do know that there is some confusion in terminology regarding rakes/drops/collections/live drop/dead drop and so on.

If the drop at AJs is in fact a button charge, and especially if it is dead (i.e., doesn't count towards your bet), then the button charge acts like a time charge without the benefit of discouraging walking.

~ Rick

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
If the drop at AJs is in fact a button charge, and especially if it is dead (i.e., doesn't count towards your bet), then the button charge acts like a time charge without the benefit of discouraging walking.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the AJs 3-6 and 6-12 games, they drop $3 from the button. That money counts towards your bet (so it's free to call on the button in 3-6 and half-price in 6-12). In the 15-30 game, $3 is dropped from the button, but it does not count towards your bet (still $15 to call).

[Rick Nebiolo]

Ulysses,

We just missed each other by a minute ;-).

Beginning in 2002, California law allowed a drop to be taken from the pot. Drop means the full amount is taken no matter what, although some clubs such as the Bike take a reduced or "modified drop" on no flop. In any event, making drop dependent on pot size (i.e, a rake) is illegal.

I didn't realize the No Cal clubs have stuck with a button charge (which may be live, the old (prior to 2002) low limit button charge in Los Angeles was dead).

For more than you ever want to know about drop/rake/button charges/time collection and my hopes for improving poker use advanced Google's Advanced Group Search crossing rec.gambling poker with author "Rick Nebiolo" and the words rake drop or collection. Oh heck, here is the link to my assorted drop and rake rants (http://tinyurl.com/2asy3)

~ Rick

[Ed Miller]

then the button charge acts like a time charge without the benefit of discouraging walking.

Nah, they take the $3 off your stack when the button goes by whether you are walking or not. If there is more than one charge for a hand, they put the extras in the pot. That's how I remember it.

When the game gets short-handed, you'd better whip out the Depends, because otherwise you are gonna pay a fortune to visit the can.

[Ed Miller]

A dead button charge and a time charge are very similar. Neither of them affects the play of hands.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the drop at AJs is in fact a button charge, and especially if it is dead (i.e., doesn't count towards your bet), then the button charge acts like a time charge without the benefit of discouraging walking.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the AJs 3-6 and 6-12 games, they drop $3 from the button. That money counts towards your bet (so it's free to call on the button in 3-6 and half-price in 6-12). In the 15-30 game, $3 is dropped from the button, but it does not count towards your bet (still $15 to call).

[/ QUOTE ]

These electronic fly by messages sure are confusing /images/graemlins/grin.gif Hopefully we can synch up our messages.

IMO the AJ's 15/30 dead button drop is very much equivalent to the time charge for the 20/40 at Lucky Chances from a psychological standpoint. Everyone pays equally, and the pot size is not reduced by a drop. Time is a pain for the house to collect, but time reduces the tendency to walk.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
then the button charge acts like a time charge without the benefit of discouraging walking.

Nah, they take the $3 off your stack when the button goes by whether you are walking or not. If there is more than one charge for a hand, they put the extras in the pot. That's how I remember it.

When the game gets short-handed, you'd better whip out the Depends, because otherwise you are gonna pay a fortune to visit the can.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, that's interesting! I'm not so sure that for mid limits and above, this isn't such a bad idea, although it is kind of scary to imagine others reaching into your chips while you are away from the table.

In the past I've been fanatically against dead button charges, but that was for low limit where the collection is proportionally much larger. In a nutshell, I believed the dead button drop didn't allow a core of semi-solid players to advance up the ladder based on winnings and merit.

In mid and higher limits, the dead drop is proportionally lower. The better players can overcome it and it will promote action as time collection does. I'm starting to like the idea of taking it when players are absent, although the drop must be substantially reduced short-handed.

To keep oneself regular, try a combination of flax seed and Konsyl (sort of like Metamucil, but better for Atkins type diets /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
you rgp people are all completely high. the time drop will change nothing. it will help the tight sensible players like you rick, and only hurt the loose awful players a tiny bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

RGP has its share of good stuff, although I was labled a 2+2 spy at the ESCARGOT get tegether at the Bike. BTW, Is tight sensible a compliment?

[ QUOTE ]
after all what difference will $20-$40 extra a night more cost the typical awful 20-40 player who comes in with $1000 to lose, proceeds to play for 2-10 hours until it's all gone, and then leaves and comes back in a few days and does it all again? and once every 10-15 times maybe he wins $2000 and has to leave because his wife asks him to come home at that very moment, so he leaves thinking about how good a player he is. the time drop will not have any noticeable effect on these types of players of which there are many (thank god).

the player who may suffer a little (and i do mean a little) bit more is the break evenish wannabee. and his swings are generally so big and his bankroll so inconsistent that he will never notice the difference either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course on any given day time charges/drops and so on won't be noticed. Speed Racer's point is that the drop will eventually attract a tighter/nittier/nut peddling core of players, and this will make it a lot less fun for the action players.

[ QUOTE ]
so the whole debate is nonsense. good players will benefit a little from pot collections, and bad losing players wont notice any difference, and that's all that matters to us. the games down here in oceanside are $4 pot drop and they are as loose and un-nitlike as can be imaginable. every single player plays much looser than is correct and even the best players (like me) have severe leaks in their game. and, i have to say, being able to get up and take a walk and not feel like the walk is costing you $5 really helps one want to play longer sessions.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ocenan's 11 is the only game in that side of town (San Diego), and I believe thay have taken some variation of drop for some time now. Anyway, I'm starting to fade and hope to get back tomorrow.

Regards,

Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say that the Commerce eliminated all charges and let the players play for free. What would happen?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a little too hypothetical; however, some years ago both the Bike and Chrystal Park reduced their time charges to $10 an hour for all top section games. They both had other problems but the real impact was to atract a lot of rocks who didn't want to play with other rocks so both clubs gave up on it. You can't compete on price alone.

[ QUOTE ]
PS: In the past, when games have been changed from rakes to time charges, I've been recruited by rocks to help them lobby for a reversal of the change. They always argue that it hurts the "good" player. By "good," they mean "tight."

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we both agree that other things being equal, time charges do hurt the tight players as compared to rake. But other things won't stay equal and we agree on that too.

Regards,

Rick

[Ulysses]

At AJs, if you miss a round at 3-6/6-12, you get a blind button. If you miss a round at 15-30, you get a blind button and the button charge is taken from you and tossed into the pot the hand the button passes. Standard drop is $3 for 7 or more, $2 for 6 and $1 for 5 or less. Some of the floormen will give some kind of break like $1 less or free every other round or something like that if it gets short or it's really late/early.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[Rick Nebiolo]

Our hyperbolic friend Speed Racer wrote this (http://tinyurl.com/2tll3) related post on this topic. I just answered (once again, it may not show up on Google for a while).

The gist of my response to Speed Racer is speculation that the AJ's mid limit dead drop is the way to go. I'd appreciate details, thoughts, input, problems, whatever by anyone who plays there.

Goodnight,

Rick

[snakehead]

something that both you and speedracer have missed is that in a yellow chip game with a drop (or in a brown chip game with a drop like at the bike), there is no way you will ever get 40 hands per hour. in smaller games, the right change is almost always in the pot and the dealer just reaches in and grabs the rake. but in larger games, the dealer has to make change in every pot (to break down the yellow chips), which slows down the game tremendously.

this reduces the amount the house takes every hour, and reduces the amount a player can win every hour.

How did I get lumped in with lederer?

[M.B.E.]

Sorry if this has been brought up before, but what's the difference between a rock and a nut peddler?

[andyfox]

My best guess is the yellow chip games average 34-35 hands/hour right now. 40/hour under the new regime does indeed seem optimistic since the dealers will have to make change whenver they take a drop. But the lack of arguments/discussion/delay at collection time will, I think, balance this out. I think if we assume they'll get in 10% more hands, that's a pretty good approximation.

Right now, they take, at a full table, $126/hour in 15-30 and $144 in 20-40. If they get in 38 hands/hour under the new regime, the drop would be $152 (assuming they drop the full amount even when there's a chop or walk or the table is short-handed).

A few things I think will happen:

-Players waiting to play 30-60 or 40-80 will be less likely to play 15-30 or 20-40 while waiting. They tend to play more hands in the smaller games than they play in their usual games and this will discourage both this modified style of play and their willingness to play.

-The 15-30 game will die. It is already in its death throes. I'm not quite sure why, but it's not unusual for there to be no 15-30 game, or one short-handed one, while there are three or four 20-40 games. (It is the same with 30-60 vs. 40-80). I guess people like to see a lot of chips in the pot. If the drop is the same $4 in both 15-30 and 20-40, more of the few remaining 15-30 players will be enticed to playing only 20-40.

-Eventually, to keep the game going, they'll try to make the 15-30 a jackpot game. They may do this with the 20-40 as well.

Whatever happens, rest assured the card room will not end up with less money in collection. The current full table drops of $126 and $144 I mentioned above only occur when everyone pays the full rate, which is rare. There are always new players, players claiming they're new players, players who have moved over from a lower stakes table, players claiming they've moved over from a lower stakes table, and pleadings for special dispensations because it's a short table or because it's a full moon. A per/hand drop has got to be better for the house than a time collection.

[andyfox]

I see where the blinds in 15-30 have been reduced to $20/round. I assume the $10 small blind has been changed to $5. This should indeed make the game play much tighter. The small blind will call less often and the value of "stealing" from late position is much reduced.

Under the old regime, you would win $25 for a $30 "steal" investment. Now, if they take $4 from your win, you would win only $16. It's still not quite as bad as in 9-18, where you need to invest $18 to win $7.

Still, I don't think anyone thinks the 9-18 games are tight by any stretch of the imagination. mike l.'s gist, that the players will basically forget about how things were and play the way they want to play anyway, may prove to be correct.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if this has been brought up before, but what's the difference between a rock and a nut peddler?

[/ QUOTE ]

"Nut peddler" is a Speed Racer original term as far as I know. In essence a rock is someone who tries to sell the nuts to the fish so he is in fact a "nut peddler".

You shoulr read the original Speed Racer post that I linked to. It helps to know the guy, but take my word, he has a great sense of humor.

Another term I've only read or heard from him that seems so right is "sharking the game" which means checking out a nearby game to see if it is good i.e., is there blood in the water.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
something that both you and speedracer have missed is that in a yellow chip game with a drop (or in a brown chip game with a drop like at the bike), there is no way you will ever get 40 hands per hour. in smaller games, the right change is almost always in the pot and the dealer just reaches in and grabs the rake. but in larger games, the dealer has to make change in every pot (to break down the yellow chips), which slows down the game tremendously.

[/ QUOTE ].

I agree, but this is much worse in brown chip where they sort out three denominations of chips. I also think Andy Fox below is right that this is somewhat compensated by the fact that you don't slow down for collection disputes.

Another problem at the Commerce is collection technique. Maybe things aren't yet sorted out but they tend to stop all action to take the drop. The drop could be taken during the action as it is done at the Bike.

[ QUOTE ]
this reduces the amount the house takes every hour, and reduces the amount a player can win every hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

Players can win?

[ QUOTE ]
How did I get lumped in with lederer?

[/ QUOTE ]

Given your experience as casino host and running home games you were the first one I thoght of. The question should be how did Lederer get lumped in with you ;-).

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
My best guess is the yellow chip games average 34-35 hands/hour right now. 40/hour under the new regime does indeed seem optimistic since the dealers will have to make change whenver they take a drop. But the lack of arguments/discussion/delay at collection time will, I think, balance this out. I think if we assume they'll get in 10% more hands, that's a pretty good approximation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that making change should wash out with a reduction in collection disputes so I assume you mean the Commerce will make 10% more revenue in yellow chip per game hour. In the RGP thread after discounting Speed Racer hyperbole (I'm really overusing "hyperbole", but with a 600 word vocabulary it's hard not to /images/graemlins/grin.gif) I figured the Commerce would average about $13 more per hour in yellow chip - that figure is close to a 10% increase.

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, they take, at a full table, $126/hour in 15-30 and $144 in 20-40. If they get in 38 hands/hour under the new regime, the drop would be $152 (assuming they drop the full amount even when there's a chop or walk or the table is short-handed).

[/ QUOTE ]

My estimate is contained in this specific RGP post (http://tinyurl.com/24gj3) in case you or anyone else is interested.

[ QUOTE ]
Players waiting to play 30-60 or 40-80 will be less likely to play 15-30 or 20-40 while waiting. They tend to play more hands in the smaller games than they play in their usual games and this will discourage both this modified style of play and their willingness to play.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes sense.

[ QUOTE ]
-The 15-30 game will die. It is already in its death throes. I'm not quite sure why, but it's not unusual for there to be no 15-30 game, or one short-handed one, while there are three or four 20-40 games. (It is the same with 30-60 vs. 40-80). I guess people like to see a lot of chips in the pot. If the drop is the same $4 in both 15-30 and 20-40, more of the few remaining 15-30 players will be enticed to playing only 20-40.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering if this is their intent, in part to protect their lucrative 9/18 games. For a long time they have been reluctent to spread 15/30. The other thing wrong with 15/30 is that it is the bottom end of top section, and this tends to attract players who want to play top but can barely afford it (sort of like me /images/graemlins/grin.gif).

[ QUOTE ]
-Eventually, to keep the game going, they'll try to make the 15-30 a jackpot game. They may do this with the 20-40 as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm on the fence regarding jackpot in yellow chip. It did seem to improve the games at Hawaiian Gardens but I suspect other factors are in play.

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever happens, rest assured the card room will not end up with less money in collection. The current full table drops of $126 and $144 I mentioned above only occur when everyone pays the full rate, which is rare. There are always new players, players claiming they're new players, players who have moved over from a lower stakes table, players claiming they've moved over from a lower stakes table, and pleadings for special dispensations because it's a short table or because it's a full moon. A per/hand drop has got to be better for the house than a time collection.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

BTW, if you have time check out my response in the second Speed Racer thread regarding this topic (there is no Google link available right now). I'd also be curious if you know the chip runner who I think gets the most juice. PM me with your guess.

Regards,

Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I see where the blinds in 15-30 have been reduced to $20/round. I assume the $10 small blind has been changed to $5. This should indeed make the game play much tighter. The small blind will call less often and the value of "stealing" from late position is much reduced.

Under the old regime, you would win $25 for a $30 "steal" investment. Now, if they take $4 from your win, you would win only $16. It's still not quite as bad as in 9-18, where you need to invest $18 to win $7.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the value of the steal is that important at the 15/30 limit. However; even rocks, nits and nut peddlers call unraised pots for one more chip in the small blind with most hands. The fact that nits, rocks and nut peddlers will simply give up their small blind in the new one chip small blind structure almost every time will appeal to then so much that I believe Speed Racer will be right regarding the nitting up of this limit.

[ QUOTE ]
Still, I don't think anyone thinks the 9-18 games are tight by any stretch of the imagination. mike l.'s gist, that the players will basically forget about how things were and play the way they want to play anyway, may prove to be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you get into yellow chip, I believe a different mentality takes over. The problem with the new system is that the gamblers will find themselves surronded by more rocks, and this will make it a lot less fun for them.

Regards,

Rick

[Duke]

I think it will turn into a game of the same caliber as 9-18, despite the chips being yellow. Game dynamics are more driven by the structure of the game itself than by the color of the chips. 3 words: Hustler 25 50.

Anyhoo, this thread got me to install a proper newsreader last night and read through a lot of old RGP posts... I don't know, maybe 1,000 or so. It wasted a lot of my day, but it was very entertaining. There are some real characters posting over there that I had no idea posted online. Most notable was Paul, who seems to have stopped posting there due to real-life repercussions. I'll be damned if some of his posts weren't the funniest things I had ever read online.

So...

Has your posting on RGP opened you up to personal attacks and such, or am I wrong in assuming that you're name's actually Rick, and so on? I'm sure people could find out who I am just because there can't be more than a handful of Duke's in the poker world to any degree, but I'm definitely low-profile (poor) enough so that people wouldn't likely hunt me down.

...I don't know if I'm going to start posting there too or not.

Not that it matters... I think I had actual poker content in 5 of my posts.

~D

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it will turn into a game of the same caliber as 9-18, despite the chips being yellow. Game dynamics are more driven by the structure of the game itself than by the color of the chips. 3 words: Hustler 25 50.

[/ QUOTE ]

The social dynamics are a bigger factor. The bottom end of the top section tends to attract the nittiest players since they want to play and eat in top but can often barely afford it. Haven't been to Hustler lately, is the 25/50 game going good? Also note that the Hustler game has a small blind half the size of the big blind. You can play a lot more hands.

[ QUOTE ]


Anyhoo, this thread got me to install a proper newsreader last night and read through a lot of old RGP posts... I don't know, maybe 1,000 or so. It wasted a lot of my day, but it was very entertaining. There are some real characters posting over there that I had no idea posted online. Most notable was Paul, who seems to have stopped posting there due to real-life repercussions. I'll be damned if some of his posts weren't the funniest things I had ever read online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Paul Phillips is one bright guy. You can use Google to read his posts sequentially and trace his development as a player. I found he tended to get involved in the most important and interesting threads. Also Google Lederer, Barry Tennenbaum (sp?), GROAN, and Kenneth Ng/Speed Racer among others. Google me for rake rants /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Has your posting on RGP opened you up to personal attacks and such, or am I wrong in assuming that you're name's actually Rick, and so on?

[/ QUOTE ]

I post under my real name and have been doing so for about five years. So far I haven't been involved in any personal attacks and haven't been seriously attacked. It sort of works both ways.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure people could find out who I am just because there can't be more than a handful of Duke's in the poker world to any degree, but I'm definitely low-profile (poor) enough so that people wouldn't likely hunt me down.

...I don't know if I'm going to start posting there too or not.

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Use an alternate email address and look up tips on spam proofing it as much as possible.

Regards,

Rick