Limp re-raising

[Zetack]

Ok, I don't think I've ever limp re-raised in my life. However, I've seen a few posted hands recently where opponents have limped re-raised and very occaisionally I've seen it in my games. So I've started to wonder--is there any value to a limp re-raise and if so, how would you play it?

It seems to me that the value from it is that it could make people afraid of you--particularly afraid to bet into you. And so it seems to me you have to follow through with it on the flop.

Say you have AK in early position and limp re-raise taking it to three bets. Now, because you didn't get capped you feel its likely your opponents don't have AA or KK.

If the flop then comes some raggedy board missing your cards--check raise. Then, if you miss your ace or king on the turn you may have an option to get a free card on the turn. It seems you are multiplying the free card potential of the check raise by in a sense doing it twice. (Perhaps this is a good play for an earlyish suited connector hand?) If you do this several times in a session it could make people very afraid to bet into you.

Ok, the limp re-raise makes little sense in late position because there are fewer players behind you so less chance you would get to re-raise. In early position with something like A-K I think open raising makes more sense to try and limit the field (after all you don't know you will have a raise behind you or where it will come from). On the other hand, in an aggressive game, where almost every hand is raised pre-flop, or in a game where many folks cold call two bets so you have big fields even with an early position raise, it might make sense. In the latter case, three bets may serve to knock out the folks who would cold call two and since you face big fields anyway, the risk of not having a raise behind you isn't as important.

Thoughts?

--Zetack

[Nottom]

In your average micro-limit game I think you give up too much by trying to limp-reraise with you AA and KKs. People are going to call your raise anyway so unless you have a real maniac raising it up all the time allowing you to trap the field for multiple bets, you're better off just raising out of the gate.

If I wanted to play around with a limp-reraise in this kind of game, I would be more likely to do it with suited cards like AKs or AQs. If you wiff on your reraise attempt you don't lose as much as with AA, the hands play well multiway, and it will allow you to easily get away on the flop if the cards don't come to your liking.

[StellarWind]

Why try to trap loose players who are more than happy to trap themselves by coldcalling an opening raise with junk? The risk of no one raising behind you is too great to forego a normal raise.

[StellarWind]

There is another important reason not to limp-reraise. It upsets people! I certainly *know* better than to take it personally, but I'm only human and it feels like a slap in the face when it happens to me.

If you want to ensure that your calling station opponents take careful note of who you are and how you play, and if you want them to tighten up their preflop standards for the next two orbits, then by all means limp-reraise them.

But if you are enjoying a good game, maybe you should leave well enough alone.

[colehard]

I have to agree with this. I tried to get fancy and limp reraise with AA UTG today. Unexpectedly no-one raised which foiled me.

I got beaten by trip kings (flop KK8)from K5o UTG+1 who would (possibly) have folded to my open raise. Even if i had a chance to reraise, this player would have probably called the two cold once they had put one in. So I lost all round.

Luckily my flop reraise scared him and made it cheap to get to the river.

Of course this is only a sample of 1 with an unusual flop, but I don't think I will be trying this again.

[RcrdBoy]

I don't see the value in it at all. It just seems to be inviting more suckouts at this level and I get plenty already.

-Mike

[scotnt73]

i find value occasionally in shorthanded(6 max) games that are real aggressive preflop. otherwise its just a waste.

[Zetack]

I did purposely use A-K as my example because I think any potential benefits of the limp re-raise are far outweighed by the risks when you have AA or KK.

On the other hand, what about your smaller bigish pairs such as JJ or QQ?

And colehard, I know limpers will always call a raise, but will they always call another two bets?

Oh, and as far as the psychology goes Stellarwind, just personally in my micro-limit online games, I do have to tell you I'm not that worried about people noting me out and gunning for me because of something as piddly as a limp-reraise. Let em tilt away...

Like I said, I've never limped re-raised and I'm not advocating it, I'm simply exploring the idea. Like whether it might have a place in a very agressive game with a lot of preflop raising, or a game where a single raise didn't work to thin the field. And if one did use it, what's the follow up strategy? I tend to think check raising the flop with either two overcards or TPTK.

--Zetack

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, what about your smaller bigish pairs such as JJ or QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Limp-reraising with these is a definate mistake. You don't want to take QQ or worse yet JJ up against a bunch of limpers. You need to raise and get rid off all the Kxs and Axs (and Qxs in JJs case). I don't even like trying with KK becasue of the Ax factor.

[HajiShirazu]

If I'm ever in a game where it is neccessary to limp-reraise to get action on my premium hands, I leave and find a new game.