How much $$/How Do you win these?

[Vaughny]

I've played low-limit cash games for a while now, and have become intrigued by NL tournaments. How much money is in these games? What's a good beginning strategy for making it to the $$ in, say a typical Party $5? Can you win often enough to make $$? Thanks!

[Paul2432]

The best advice I can give regarding the Party $5+1 tournaments is do not play them. The 20% juice is just too high. Instead play the $10+1 (or higher) where you only pay 10%.

The general strategy in these tournaments is very tight early and then looser and more aggressive as the blinds become a higher percentage of your stack.

Some say good players can average upto 50% return on investment in these tournaments. (e.g. you could average $5 profit per $10 tournament).

Paul

[BradleyT]

I can beat the $5 stars SnG's for 45-50% ROI even with the high rake, however that's a waste of time.

For some reason though I have trouble with the $10 SnG's even though the play is just as bad.

[triplc]

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Can you win often enough to make $$? Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, this is a function of your play, but if you can approach a 40-50% ROI, I believe that your hourly rate can be better with SnGs than in ring games.

Example...my current bankroll allows me to play $1/$2 limit ring games comfortably with little chance of busting out, and I can play $20 + 2 SnGs (although I'm sticking with $10 one for a while). If I make the standard 1BB/HR rate that winning players have I will make 2 bucks per hour. However, if the average SnG takes an hour (a reasonable approximation, in my estimation), and I can make even a 25% ROI in my 20+2 SnGs, then I will make around $5/Hr.

So you can do OK with these if you can get that kind of win rate. 50% ROI becomes more difficult as you move up, but the difference between the quality of play in $5 vs $10 SnGs is negligible.

As for strategy, at Party I play super tight in rounds 1-2. Only play premium hands because with T800 to start and 10/15 blinds you can try limping or taking a stab at a pot without TPTK and find yourself with T600 or less pretty easily. I usually open up slightly in round three, and then once round 4 hits (50/100) I start trying to steal a bit more.

The key is that when you get a chance to double up, you want to double up to T1400 or T1500, and not T800 or T1000 because your stack has been whittled away by limping on weak hands or getting reraised on hands like AJo early in the game.

At UB or Stars I might limp a bit more early or play with slightly weaker hands if the table is passive because the blinds increase more slowly and I can afford to lose 20 or 30 out of a stack of 1500 more easily than 15 or 30 out of a stack of 800. So I might limp with some small pairs, mid suited connectors (T9, JT) and hands like ATs, AJo if I have middle position or better.

Just my opinion, though...I tend to play very tight early in most cases anyway. Some advocate a more aggressive approach early. Just be ready to shift gears once the blinds warrant stealing...if you don't, you can get blinded away and find yourself with a lot of 4th, 5th, and 6th place finishes. Believe me, I know.

CCC

[Vaughny]

Thanks for the advice. I understand the disadvantage w/ the 20% fee. I may still start and play a few of those to get the hang of it before I step up.

[Vaughny]

Thanks - that's the kind of info I'm looking for. Seems if you wait a while a few players will bust out early, but there's a fine line as other players are accumulating their chips. I guess that's the balancing act I'll have to get a feel for.

[mosch]

If you want to play $5 SNGs, pokerstars has $5+.50 tournaments, and stars currently has a deposit bonus that you get (literally) forever to clear.

[Vaughny]

That sounds good. I'll check it out. Thanks!

[Moonsugar]

One key thing is if you do play tight and get the tight image, you cannot play pasively once you loosen up. You really have to put on aggression, but make sure not to do it with a calling station unless you have the goods.

At Party you really need to get the cards more than at Stars because with less chips and higher blinds people will call with more hands. So, you will get busted more on Party by bad beats, but the tourneys are quicker so I think it balances out.

The strategy has to change between the 2 blind structures.