Microlimits Progress Quest: Post plans/updates/setbacks here.

[bisonbison]

I've been made to understand that user signatures have gone the way of the dodo, robbing me and many others of the ability to brag and commiserate about the short-term/long-term goals we've set ourselves as poker players.

So, rather than give up, I've decided to start a centralized thread for anyone who wants it, a la nykenny's 10k in 100 hours posts. If you're working your way up in limits, or shooting for a money goal, feel free to share, post interesting hands or celebrate milestones.

Here's me as of 2/9/2004, having started this new thing on New Year's Day.

Operation Boondoggle
Goal: .5/1 to 3/6 in 2004.
Milestones: 300BB @ each level.
Current limit: .5/1
Hands: 4539
Earnings: +243BB
Rate: 5.35BB/100

Comments: Well, I had a simply huge weekend, up 117BB in something like 20 table-hours of play, doing 3 .5/1 Party tables at a time.

Before this weekend, I'd been looking through my session data, and found that I'd been playing a lot of sessions of a half-hour or less. I decided I'd be getting better table reads and better pokertracker data on people if I played fewer, longer sessions. This weekend I played at least 9 sessions of an hour or more (3 tables at a time), and had pretty good results in all of them. Even for the tables where I posted a loss, I was able to better see which part of it was my own play and which part of it was variance due to table conditions.

All in all, I feel like I've really turned a corner in my poker abilities. I'm not great, and I'm not even particularly good, but I'm finally beating .5/1 consistently and confidently, and I don't find myself sweating preflop decisions much anymore. Can't thank micro enough for that, and I'm looking forward to moving to 1/2 in a couple of weeks. Too bad Party can't seem to keep the 1/2 10-seaters full.

[Trix]

The 1/2 tables suck at party imo, there isnt enough. I´ll skip them and try getting enough money for 2/4 instead.
Currently 2/3s of the way.
Good Luck
-Trix

[bisonbison]

Well, I know they're rock gardens, but I want to earn at least $600 more (after I reach 300BB at .5/1) before I give 2/4 a shot. That'll give me 225BB for 2/4, and if I earn 300BB at 2/4, I'll have 260BB for 3/6.

Once I break 300BB at .5/1, I figure I'll play as many 1/2 full games as possible, and if I can't find a decent table, play .5/1.

[Trix]

Oh, I missunderstood you then, I thought you wanted to have 300 1/2 BBs before moving up...

[fluff]

Consider bonus whoring. If you do, you should have no problem getting 300 BBs ($1200) for a 2/4 game while only playing 0.5/1 games for 300 BBs at that level ($300).

[bisonbison]

Earning 300BB playing 1/2 is the goal, but I only play at Party, and I'm not interested in making this harder than it already is.

I'll be playing as much 1/2 as possible, but if I'm winning consistently after a few thousand hands and it's clear that good 1/2 tables are just too scarce, I'll build a $900 bankroll in .5/1 + 1/2 and move on up to the promised land of 2/4.

IF I am winning consistently. IF I get the bankroll. Those are the main purposes of this thing, setting myself goals with clear ways to evaluate my performance and then moving up when it's clear I won't be in over my head.

[Lost Wages]

Hands: 4539
Rate: 5.35BB/100

Obviously you are playing well and are off to a good start but recognize that you are also running well. Expect some short term setbacks do to the high standard deviation in these loose games. The short term can eaisly be 10,000+ hands. Good luck.

Lost Wages

[Sam T.]

Well, I'm a few weeks behind you, and don't have a name for the operation, but it sounds like we're headed in similar directions. My goal is to move up as I show I can beat games over the long term. I started with a $200 buy-in and have been playing .5/1. I will move up when I get to $500.

Since I started tracking my play in detail on January 27th:

Current limit: .5/1 (on Party, but I'm going to start playing Paradise for the bonus)
Hands: 1195
Hours: 24.25
Earnings: +138 BB
Rate: 5.7BB/hour

Questions:
-Everything I've read tells me that this winning-rate cannot be sustained. Statistically speaking, am I headed for a crash?

On the horizon:
-Playing multiple tables. I tried it for play money, and had a hell of a time keeping track of where I was sitting, let alone the cards. Mebbe I'm stoopid.
-Trying a Sit n' Go. Different than the ring game, but could be a fun change of pace.
-Read HFAP. So far I've been relying on WLLH and Sklansky and Malmuth's introduction to the game.

Good luck, and stay tuned.

[Trix]

I can still improve my game playing .5/1 and I will probably hit 1200 in a week or two anyways, so im fine.

[bisonbison]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously you are playing well and are off to a good start but recognize that you are also running well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this weekend really skewed things. On Friday, I was at about 3.00/100. That's why I've set the earning goals, to keep me from moving up any faster than I might otherwise want to.

[B Dids]

My goals.

I've got 50 bucks (so 25BB at the .5/1 table- right) in Party. I want to make another 25BB, and cash that out- so I'm functionally playing for free.

Then I want to play till I hit a sufficient bankroll to play at the 1/2 tables. Suggestions on what that bankroll should be? How many BB should you be playing with at any given time?

[scotnt73]

you should try the 1/2 6 max. you just sit down with a fork in each hand. of course you have to spend a few days getting used to shorthanded. i lost 250$ the first 4 days before getting the hang of it and winning the 250$ back that weekend. i actually have enough bankroll nowdays for 3/6 full tables but am waiting for 1000 more dollars so i can play 5/10(6 max). its TONS more fun too.

[bisonbison]

I've got 50 bucks (so 25BB at the .5/1 table- right) in Party. I want to make another 25BB, and cash that out- so I'm functionally playing for free.

A BB is equal to the bet size on the turn and river, so for .5/1 a BB = $1, for 2/4 a BB = $4. So $50 = 50BB at .5/1.

I would strongly suggest not cashing out until you have built a bankroll. You will still be playing from your profits as long as you're profitable, but if you suffer a downswing, you'll be glad you don't have to do redeposit. Trust me, it's dispiriting.

If you're not willing to reload, a very comfortable roll for a winning player is 300BB.

[RcrdBoy]

Good luck with your goals.

I've just passed the 300BB barrier (started with 50) playing at .50/$1 on Party. Have around 5k hands in my database and continue to try and plug leaks.

The frustrating part about moving up for me is getting over the fear of losing my hard earned roll and playing more WT than I already do.

I play semi-regularly $4/$8 live and buy in for $100 and don't ever worry about busting out.

Anyone else have/had that problem when moving up levels?

-Mike

[Lost Wages]

Statistically speaking, am I headed for a crash?

No, there is no tendancy for things to "even up". However, if you play long enough you will have extended periods where you have a net loss (1000's of hands).

Trying a Sit n' Go. Different than the ring game, but could be a fun change of pace.

Yes, very different, but also a lot of fun. For some reason I prefer the no-limit SNG's even though I play limit ring games. I guess I like the option of pushing-in if I get short stacked. Don't play the $5 SNG's at Party, they have a $1 charge which is the same as the $10. UB has $5+.50 SNG's.

Read HFAP

Good idea.

Lost Wages

[B Dids]

Thanks. I'll think twice about cashing out. In part I'm tempted to cash out because by not doing so I'm making something of a commitment to spending a hell of a lot of time in front of my computer- and I do too much of that already. If I can actually realize profits from it (rather than just having it sit in a non-interest earning account) it makes it more worthwhile.

That said- I really enjoy the game, and want to get better- and your point about re-buying and a good bankroll size is well taken.

[Lost Wages]

The frustrating part about moving up for me is getting over the fear of losing my hard earned roll

Don't be afraid to move back down if things don't go well. Also, think of your playing bankroll as a tool, not money.

I play semi-regularly $4/$8 live and buy in for $100

That's a very short buy-in. Standard is about 25BB or $200 for 4/8.

Lost Wages

[bunky9590]

4/8 you should be buying in for 200. IMHO

[CardCuda]

Started 11-01-03 with $280.00 keeping records and such - current "operation":

Goal: $2000 B/R by 04/01/04 @ .50-1.00 then will play $1-2 (2 tables)

Milestone: +1200.00 1/28/04

Curr Limit: .50-1.00 2 Tables (some $1-2 play)

Current B/R: $630.00 (cashed out $900.00) Playing on Net earnings! Sweet /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rate: 4.33/Hr. @ .50-1.00 (2 tables)
6.21/Hr @ 1-2 (single table) 78 hrs of play

I'm confident that I could move to 1-2 now, (I take shots at it here and there now) but I want the added B/R I will play 500hrs at each level and continue to move up with a substantial cushion to soak up the variance.

I did take a shot @ $2-4 12/11/03 and got kicked pretty hard (-50BB's) recovered @ .50 tables and will be back when I'm better prepared 2005 probably.

PS - I only play 1 site (Paradise) So I might Bonus Whore the other sites soon, before making a permanent move to the $1-2 game. Build the B/R again and move some to another site

[Festus22]

Good post.

I've been playing steadily for about the past 9 months or so almost exclusively at the micro limits. I just crossed $3K in earnings with maybe $800 of that coming from bonus whoring. I played a little over 1000 hands at Party $1/2 and my rate was lower than that of Party $0.5/1 so I stopped $1/2. I have about 250 hands at $2/4 and am down 18 BB's. I probably played too tight (14% Flops) but didn't get a lot of hands either.

Now my issue is I know I busted my butt building my bankroll to date and don't relish the thought of giving a ton of it back while trying to figure out if I can be profitable at $2/4. But to give it a fair shot, I know I need to expect a downswing. It's the old risk/reward balancing act.

So what's the best plan when $1/2 sucks and $2/4 places several weeks of profit at risk to give it a decent shot?

[ChipWrecked]

Oh, Yeah!!! I love this game. Playing the short-handed strategy in HPFAP will get you the money.

The players used to full-table will curse you and question your (to them) maniacal play; which makes it all the more fun. /images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

edit: While clearing a bonus at Empire, I've been sitting at .50/1 tables with three or four players. You have to jump tables a bit but it's worth it.

"Morrrris! Din-din!"

[fluff]

"Now my issue is I know I busted my butt building my bankroll to date and don't relish the thought of giving a ton of it back while trying to figure out if I can be profitable at $2/4. But to give it a fair shot, I know I need to expect a downswing. It's the old risk/reward balancing act."

Go play the 0.5/1 games at Pokerstars. Those games are about as hard if not a bit harder than Party 2/4 games. So you can learn tough tables at a cheaper price.

[RcrdBoy]

[ QUOTE ]

I play semi-regularly $4/$8 live and buy in for $100

That's a very short buy-in. Standard is about 25BB or $200 for 4/8.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is it? I usually have $200 on me, but have never come close to rebuying. I've only played a handful of times so I know it doesn't even come close to giving me a real idea of how these tables play, but man they seem soft. Live has been so much more passive than on line.

In more than 30 hours of live play I haven't even seen a check raise and the hand selection is just as loose as Party .50/$1.00.

Either way, they compliment each other nicely.

Thanks for the feedback.

-Mike

[jonahmavesin]

Is short-handed actually more profitable?

Is variance higher?

Doesn't the rake eat you up?

As for bankroll progress - I am up to 450BB at 1/2. When I hit 600, I'll move to 2/4 with 300BB. It will definitely be nice to get out of these damn 1/2s!

[HajiShirazu]

I started one of these 2 weeks ago, and just got won my 300bbs to move up to 1/2. I don't see what's wrong with the 1/2 full games at party. The pots aren't as big, but I have actually been taking some of them down with bluffs.

[Trix]

Started 4. of January 04.
Goal: 1 Month at each limit and then move to the next with sufficient bankroll.
Status: Will probably be ready for 2/4 in a few weeks.
Febuary sux, too short.

[bisonbison]

Well, I broke 300BB at .5/1 today since 1/1/2004, but I've earned the last 50 or so kinda ugly (see the Gigantic pot post) and tilt-like (calling raises w/gutshot straight draw and spiking my 4 outer). So I think I'll spend 1000 more hands in the land of .5/1 and see if I can't keep my VP$IP under 20, my PFR above 5 and my postflop chasing in check.

[Brian]

I am doing something similiar to this that JasonHoldEm (now JustJason) came up with. Both are very similiar in nature to the OIC. You can read more about it at: www.pokerodyssey.com (http://www.pokerodyssey.com) .

Anyways, I am still going to 3 table 3/6 (have to pay the bills :P), but I changed my 4th table into a .5/1 table about a week ago. So far here are my stats (I may keep a journal like Jason if anyone would be interested in reading it):

Start Date: 2/02/04
Start Money: $0 [well, ok, a little bit so I could play /images/graemlins/wink.gif]

Current Date: 2/14/04
Current Money: $129

I am currently up 129bb, which means only about 20 more bb to go until I hit 1/2. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I started off really rocky, down about 60 bucks, and almost decided "f it, I am going back to 3/6". But, I want to get to 15/30 pretty soon, and this seems like the best way to do it, so I gritted my teeth and beared it. Eventually the dry streak settled and I am close to 1/2. I sure didn't think it'd take this long to get past .5/1, but it has been a long time since I played and I had to make a couple of strategy adjustments. Such as taking off the auto-raise button when I see AJo or 99 in EP, etc.

-Brian

[bisonbison]

Well, two weeks ago I said I'd met my bankroll goal for .5/1 but I wanted to spend another thousand hands or so tuning up before moving up. It turned out I hit a big downswing, 120BB, absolutely my most brutal time since I sort of got my feet under me last fall.

Well, steady play over the last 2000 hands has brought me back above 300BB at .5/1, and I think I'll start playing a table of .5/1 and a table of 1/2 (10 handed) at the same time to ease into the next level.

One thing I'm wondering about (I've played 150 hours, 8600 hands, so I know that the stats are very vague right now): my winrate is 3.6/100 hands, and my Standard Deviation seems huge at 18.6/100 hands. Is this a number I should worry about, does it just mean that I'm playing a lot of high variance hands, or is the sample size so small as to be meaningless?

I just feel like these large bankroll fluctuations are partly the games but a lot my own play. Is it too much?

[AviD]

I've been playing PokerStars for a little over a week now and the .5/1 are certainly alot tougher and tighter than Party. Bluffing and Semi-Bluffing seems to be quite profitable there, whereas at Party you get called alot more than you'd like.

Last night was the first aggressive table session I had at PS, and a strange table texture...same players but constant shifts from LAG to tight. Probably a good time to move out onto another table...but I did manage to win about 10BB in about 2 hours before dropping about 10BB on the 2+2 Party table! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Ric]

I've been playing since a little before New Year's, seeing if I do well at Hold 'em or not. I got my Party account because my dad decided that he wasn't doing well and gave it me to play around with. I asked for WLLHE for my birthday, and since using some of the concepts in that and HPFAP I've been able to turn that $30 into about $260 (including deposit bonuses) playing .50/1. I think I'll give 1/2 a shot this weekend, if that doesn't work out I'll drop back to .50/1. It was good timing that I got the $20 Party bonus and the 'FEBRELEASE' bonus just as I was switching my money back to Party from Pacific. I've been having a blast, and learning a lot. It's a fun experience.

[symphonic]

Operation Stop Sucking!

Trying to make 300BB for 1/2, then move up, and continue to do so until i'm out of the micro limits.

Current status: +53BB($103 total bankroll, started at $50) at .5/1 after 2 hours of play. (I just started this Operation last night /images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

[ctv1116]

bisonbison, Homer in his simulation about skill vs. luck, assumed a 1BB/hr win rate and 10BB/hr standard deviation. Assuming you play 50 hands/hr, that corresponds to a 14.1 BB/100 hands standard deviation. And considering that 0.5/1 is much looser and wilder than say, 5-10, you're standard deviation seems about right.

[AviD]

Good start, 26.5BB/hour. Just don't get too set on those numbers...because they are sure to lower! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[B Dids]

I'm current at around 6BB/HR. I'm up to 105 from my original 50. I played two tournaments and lost, so my winnings/progress for my .5/1 play is really more like 125 total/75 in profit.

[symphonic]

Oh trust me, I know. Those are merely my numbers since starting my project, my numbers normally aren't nearly that high. I had a hot run of cards last night is all.

[Trix]

Hi all

Reached +1200 today /images/graemlins/grin.gif
I thought I would have been there ealier, but had some nasty swings. It was good practice for playing without tilting when loosing though. I need more of that, loosing affects my game /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
I´m glad people told me to play 1/2, though I probably would have made it faster at the .5/1 tables. Definatly learned more by moving up.

For those who cares about the stats:

It´s 5.29$/Hour/Table, It´s a mix of 2* .5/1, 1* 1/2 and 2* 1/2.

Next goal is +1800, so I hope I can make 600 more before the 4. of April and futher improve my game while doing it.

Thx for the help all.
-Trix

[B Dids]

My update... Moving costs money- had to cash out 60 to cover myself till payday. I'm planing on putting it back into play, but maybe at Stars instead.

[PokerNoob]

I've been playing since last fall and I've at least 4 or 5X'ed my original buy in. I've been doing some bonus whoring. I bought PokerTracker at the beginning of Febuary and my ring game stats (1,700 hands all at party 2/4) are 4.8 BB/100 hands. I've been playing a good many $10+1 SNG's at party and I'm at least 80% in the money. I've been playing a lot of 6 max 1/2 at the prima skins to clear bonus and tournament qualify. Its hard to keep track, but my roll keeps going up, so I guess I'm doing ok.

I feel that I am at a crossroads though. I don't think my play is getting much better. There is no doubt I need to crack a few books. I also don't know where I should go from here. I'd like to improve my full ring game and see if I can really beat this level badly and move up. But I'd also like to develop some sharp shorthanded and headsup skills. I also enjoy Sit and Go's and think maybe I should try the $30+3's. There's also the whole world of pot and no limit to explore. But I feel like I should concentrate mainly on just one thing for now. I also want to get back to my own OIC. I think I am in 3/6 in that particular endeavor, but I've been doing the shorthanded stuff instead.

I think my plan for this month will be: 1) Clear the empire bonus at 2/4 full ring. 2) Clear the small site monthly bonuses at 1/2 or whatever level is right for my roll. 3) Try some $30+3's 4) Personal OIC at 3/6. 5) Read a book. I guess HEFAP??? Any other suggestions?

[AviD]

Trix:

What are your stats like?

BB/hour?
BB/100?
VP$IP?
Flop percentage?
Hours of play?
Number of hands?

[toddw8]

Operation Something From Nothing
Goal: Turn $50 into a lot of money eventually
Immediate Goal: Build a sufficient bankroll for Party .50/1 by summer
Current Limit: Pokerstars .05/.10
Hands: 3090
Earnings: +100.4 BB ($10.04)
Rate: 3.2 BB/100 hands

Comments: Things are going well so far. I'm gettng a lot more comfortable with the game and I feel like I'm improving my play rapidly. I think I'm going to try to move from 2 to 3 tables sometime soon.

[symphonic]

I'm up 138 BB since the start of my project. Was up about 163, but monday was crap! Oh well, +138 isn't bad for about 4/5 days of play at the .5/1 tables since i'm fairly new to online poker. I won't be progressing much more though for the next week as i'm taking a trip to Southern California til next Wednesday, fun fun fun.

[Trix]

I dont use poker tracker.
The BB/hour is somewhat twisted since its a mix of .5/1 and 1/2. I dont know how many hands I have played either.
I´m restarting log for 2/4, maybe I should include # of hands then.
I´ve played around 120 hours. If I 2Table, I double the hours.

[afk]

[ QUOTE ]
Operation Something From Nothing
Goal: Turn $50 into a lot of money eventually
Immediate Goal: Build a sufficient bankroll for Party .50/1 by summer
Current Limit: Pokerstars .05/.10
Hands: 3090
Earnings: +100.4 BB ($10.04)
Rate: 3.2 BB/100 hands


[/ QUOTE ]

Operation Something from Nothing Part Deux
Goal: Turn $50 into a lot of money eventually
Start: Feb. 7, 2004.
Immediate Goal: Build a sufficient bankroll (200BB or so) for PokerStars .25/.50 before Summer ends.
Long term goals: Party .5/1 by the end of the year. Stars 100/200 as soon as possible after that (hah).
Current Limit: Pokerstars .05/.10
Hands: 1635
Earnings: +111.2 BB ($11.12)
Rate: 6.8 BB/100 hands

I think I'll start with two tables around 3k or 4k hands. Things are going well so far, but I've only got 1600 hands, so the night is young. I'm running well and have only seen one losing streak so far - but was lucky enough to make it all back in an hour.

I like learning at "tough" tables (well, when compared to Party .5/1), I've played with some fairly decent players (including our very own toddw8, see 3 posts above)at .05/.10 so far and I'm looking for to make the appropriate loose game changes to my game when I get to Party .5/1.

[eric5148]

Great post bisonbison here's my story:

Operation: Buy new golf clubs with poker money.

Started 2/5/04 playing UB .25/.50 1 table at a time.

Goal: 300BB - then I'll move to paradise .50/1
Hours: 84
won: 214 BB
2.5 BB/hr
hands: 7600

PokerTracker stats (advice?):

VP$IP: 23.78%
from SB: 37.26%
Won$WSF: 33.81%
Went to SD: 31.44%
Won at SD: 52.55%
PF raise: 4.78%

-Eric

[bisonbison]

Well, cards are running really well for me over the last 4000 Party 1/2 hands: basically 5BB/100, and playing tightly preflop and picking good tables has helped me avoid paying too dearly for the two flaws most obvious to me in my play:

1) I semi-bluff too much.
2) I chase too much when it's clear the odds don't justify it.

At this rate or even one of 3BB/100, I'd reach 300BB in a couple thousand hands. It's become clear to me that that's not enough to move up to 2/4. Not for bankroll reasons (I'll have earned 225 * $4 in operation boondoggle + I already have 300 * $4 in my party account), but for play evaluation reasons.

So, even if I hit 300BB early, I'll be sticking around 1/2 until I've accumulated at least 10,000 hands (and stayed above 300BB). The new Party browser makes it easier for me to find full table 1/2 games, and frankly, I'm finding 1/2 to be the perfect mix of learning and fun.

[MasterShakes]

Goal: From $1/$2 to $2/$4 by June.
Status: 1/2 | 1,686 hands | +6 BB

History: I got a lot of experience playing the .50/1 at Party, playing a little over 9,000 hands, clearing a little over 400 BBs. I felt very comfortable moving up to 1/2, and once I got there, I immediately started running well, going up quite a bit over the first 800 hands, clearing 6 BB / 100.

Currently: Now, I'm way down. It looks like I'm running bad, but I'm actually starting to question some decisions that I'm making. It is likely a combination of running bad and SOME bad decisions. Looking back, I can't think of more than a couple of definitely poor plays, and a couple more questionable ones. I feel like I could easily turn things around at this point.

What I'm wondering:
1) Why is it that I keep hearing that the 1/2 games are so tough? It's not that I disagree with the statement - there are definitely some solid players at this level. But why is it that 1/2 is tough, while every level immediately around is crap? The only explanation that I've heard is that 1/2 has a lot of players who climbed there way up from .50/1 just like a lot of us. This makes some sense, but wouldn't 2/4 and 3/6 logically be just as tough, since players move up from 1/2, given the bankroll and experience?

2) If I get the kinks worked out of my game at the 1/2 level, and I get about 9,000-10,000 hands of experience, should I go ahead and move up to 2/4? I currently have the bankroll to do so, but I didn't want to just skip over the 1/2 level, given the bankroll and experience building that could be done there. Also, in hindsight, it seems like this was a good idea, as the hit to my bankroll given a streak like this would be significant.

3) For those who have actually moved up to 2/4 and 3/6 and have gained a lot of experience there, what are these levels truly like? I have a hard time believing that they are as easy as everybody makes them out to be. Then again, maybe I should believe in the magical mountain of chips that lies at the end of this long, hard slog through 1/2.

[ctv1116]

Yea, so I started with a freeroll back in December when Paradise was doing those freerolls. I managed to get $1.40 in freerolls, played a $1 tourney and placed 10th to get to $10, then got lucky a couple times in limit to get it up to $50. I grinded it up to $573.82 by the end of January when I cashed it out (for various reasons, mainly scared of the 110 BB downswing I had weathered).

But like all of us, I came back to the game, and plunked back $50 into Paradise at the end of February. Again, by grinding it out, but also getting some real good cards, I'm up to $540.50 from that $50. So adding up the two totals minus the $50 + 12.50 deposit bonus, I've turned a $1.40 freeroll into $1051.82. I probably should move up to at least 1/2, but the Paradise 1/2 games are pretty tight. So, at least for a few more months, I'm going to stick with 0.5/1 at Paradise. I might move some of the money into Party, but Paradise has been very good to me, so I will stay loyal to them. I feel I owe much of my success to 2+2, they've really taught me everything I know. Special thanks to Majorkong for all of his insightful posts; I will definitely be buying his book and recommending it to all my friends.

[B Dids]

Since my last update I won about 130 in two days. Over the weekend I went up 20 and then lost that today. Just bouncing around hoping for a hot streak at this point.

[ctv1116]

Just be patient, you just need to minimize tilt in the downswings and just milk the upswings for all their worth.

[rjc199]

This post is what got me back into poker. I had given it up in jan after playing for 3 months and winning 300BB's at 0.50/1. I moved up to 1/2 and all of a sudden I hit a losing streak and lost confidence. I cashed out and took a break until 5 days ago. I'm back playing the 0.5/1 on party trying to get my bankroll up to $600 to jump to the 1/2 tables and eventually before the end of the year get my way to 3/6

[bisonbison]

Wheee... Just crossed the 300BB line at 1/2 after roughly 7700 hands. Up 44BB this weekend in 1200 hands, including a great hour tonight at 2 tables where I just kept raising and hitting and raising and hitting. When you get to play it that way, poker sure is a lot of fun.

Still, I'm feeling like another 2300 hands at 1/2 will do me nothing but good. If I reach 10,000 hands and I'm still above 300BB and feeling alright about my game, then 2/4 here I come.

[symphonic]

Congrats. I'm still trying to get to 1/2. Although after a nice session today I got back up to 300 BB at .5/1

[bisonbison]

Glad to hear it.

[symphonic]

Yea, all this play at .5/1 has really helped my game. I no longer find myself playing scared like I used to. Even at .5/1 when I first started, I was playing scared, not that the money was even very important to me, I just didn't have confidence. I've also learned more about tilt, and i'm gradually getting better at combatting it. My biggest problems currently are a lack of raising preflop (only 2.93% in 3500 hands, the only hands I raise are AA-JJ, AKs-AQs, AKo-AQo) and giving my party opponents far too much credit with their hands.

[bisonbison]

Well, don't worry, as you move up in levels you may get to where I'm at: learning more about tilt (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=589611&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&) every day and giving party opponents far too little credit with their hands.

[B Dids]

I cashed out 70 that I didn't really need to (basically in a fit of tilt after dropping 20 in my home game), and now I've won that all back (after dropping down to 65BB or so last week). So I'm at 165BB right now.

If I count the cashouts I've made and the tournaments I've played, I'm at 317 (that's one third place finish in 7 tournaments, I just need to stop playing those), which in terms of actually moving up is meaningless, but in terms of a measure of sucess is something, I soppose if I wanted to throw another 100 in there and move up I could, but I won't.

(Goal is 300 BB at .5/1 and then moving up to 1/2).

[Trix]

I wouldn´t move permanently to 1/2 without atleast 200 1/2 BBs.
I have gone through 100 BB loosing streeks in in the time I´ve been playing.
You can go there from time to time to get the feel of the game though, just be prepared to move down again if you dont start out winning.

[bisonbison]

Yeah, I have to agree with Trix. 150BB can feel like very shortmoney when you hit actual variance. Even though operation boondoggle may make it look like I'm short-rolled, I've got over 300BB in my Party account at all times. Right now I've got 650 1/2BB there, even if I've only earned 450 of them this year. That's why I can feel comfortable moving up to 2/4 soon.

[Trix]

You should, people are making lots of mistakes, so its definatly beatable, yet I make less there than I did in .5/1 /images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Try not to tilt and play solid poker, thats the best advise I can give. Loosing 100$ in one session hurts. Having a 400$ loosing streek really suck. Be prepared if it hits you and quit in time if it affects your game.

[GWB]

bisonbison,

It is time to start a new "Microlimits Progress Quest: Post plans/updates/setbacks here" thread, so we don't have to drag all the deadweight of this thread around.

You can include a link to this thread. It is so ordered by Executive Order #04032387764,

W

[B Dids]

No.

[GWB]

[ QUOTE ]
No.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a link to this thread, you can still admire your March Progress reports over and over again.

Learn to live outside your comfort zone!

[bisonbison]

Well, I got tired of waiting, so I'm into 2/4 now, and readjusting to loose games. It's quite a change from 1/2, and more aggressive than .5/1. We'll see how it goes.

Here's the journey so far. Since 1/1/04:

Operation Boondoggle
Goal: .5/1 to 3/6 in 2004.
Milestones: 300BB @ each level.

Limit: .5/1
Hands: 9716
Earnings: +416BB
Rate: 4.28BB/100

Limit: 1/2
Hands: 8456
Earnings: +423BB
Rate: 5.01BB/100

Limit: 2/4
Hands: 593
Earnings: +43BB
Rate: 7.26BB/100

All I can say is: it looks like I'm running hot at 3 limits here, and I've got 239BB so far for 3/6.

[symphonic]

my hero!! /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm still grinding away at .5/1, turning $50 into $600 is taking forevvvvver (well, it's my own fault for cashing out some of it). I'm up 350 BB's, but I still got 350 more to go til 1/2.

[thirddan]

Bison, youre a maniac, how do doing this so quick /images/graemlins/tongue.gif


Go outside once in a while...

[bisonbison]

4 tables at a time, my friend. 4 tables at a time.

[AviD]

BTW, nice tip on the res settings.

My eyes began to bleed slightly after an hour or so of playing like that, but at least I didnt have game window overlay! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Buttons still disappearing regularly...especially when I'm UTG.

[B Dids]

I want to go to 4 tables, but my friends in C&C at work keep not letting me steal a flat screen monitor. If I could get dual flatscreens on my desk, I'd be able to 4 table no problem.

I found that two tabling changed my game- not having the time to think about each hand, and getting that extra hands in really make both my game and my mind less affected by the losses I'd take.

[Sam T.]

Just a little love-letter to poker.

I started playing on-line early this year, and began my career with a truly remarkable run. For February I was up 500BB, and convinced that I was the second coming of Chris Ferguson. Sure my game had leaks, but how serious could they be?

So the Poker Gods saw fit to put me in my place, and I took it on the chin for most of March, giving back nearly 100B in the first two weeks and then just grinding out a few BB per hour.

This weekend, things really turned around - up 80BB and back over my previous high. I spent a while last night thinking about March's ups and downs, and found that I apprecaite my current run all the more, simply becasue I know it's not always like this. (Two sets of quads in two days, with plenty of customers? Not normal.) At the same time, it's a little bittersweet because I know that the run will eventually end, and once again I'll find myself banging my head against the wall. I knew the game was mathematically complex when I started, but what has me amazed is the psychological dimensions, both long and short term. It's fascinating, and I know I'm just scratching the surface.

Poker is a great game.

[Trix]

I´ve played 2/4 for about a month now.
I was up 110 BBs after the first 11 hour, but the I went on a 100BB loosing streek and never got back.
At the moment I´m at +25BBs for the month, so I guess I´ll have to do another month of 2/4.

[bisonbison]

7000 hands at 2/4 up about 165 BB total, the last 2000 hands of which have been marked by some incredibly poor play on my part. I'm down about 33 BB over that period (after a +25BB night tonight), which is remarkable, considering how tilted and crappy I've been playing. Put a little bad short-term luck, mix it with impatience and bingo: bad mid-term results that perpetuate themselves.

Guh. I don't know what else to say. Guh. I forgot the reality of very loose games and let myself become frustrated with my opponents' bad play. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

Tonight, I had a solid couple of hours, ended up embracing the grind again, and hopefully getting my attitude back on track. Chill out. Sit back. Aim for reasonable play. Let the variance take care of itself.

[sthief09]

I don't know if you noticed, but I was at your table for a little while tonight. if your goal is to hit 3/6 that's going to happen a lot sooner than later.

[bisonbison]

You know what's fun? Winning. You know what's not so fun? Losing.

April so far has sucked. 4500 hands, -90 BB @ 2/4. And that's with a 40 BB win today.

I've been tight preflop, but in addition to some bad luck, I've been playing pretty pretty poorly post-flop, giving up a lot of bets here and there and chasing, and forgetting that no one at 2/4 folds, and that that's why it's profitable.

On thursday, after 3000+ hands of online pain, having given back almost all of my 2/4 progress, I decided to go to my local cardroom, play some 6/12, and recenter myself. It was a nice break, I made 4 BB in 2 hours and I realized that poker's not so tough if you don't sweat it.

Since then, I've played about 1000 hands and am finding my feet under me again.

I'm glad that I played through the losing, cause I feel that in some way, shitty cards really did play a major role, but I've got to work on accepting the variance before I can move forward. If I can play without tilt, then I can know that bad short-term results are just variance.

For now, the goal remains the same 300 BB at 2/4. Only 200 to go.

[B Dids]

Swing, Swing, Swing.

I'm keeping regular updates of my progress(?) on my blog.

I've gone from 189 to 250 to 165 to 262 to 213 in the course of 7 days. I guess that probably isn't really even a meaningful swing. And it's still a winning rate- but frustrating.

[Nemesis]

My goal is 300 BB at .5/1... I'm currently at 100 BB.

[JSD]

[ QUOTE ]
You know what's fun? Winning. You know what's not so fun? Losing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me about it. It has been a crazy three days at 1/2.

wednesday: down 50BB in 500 hands at 3am. can't win a thing. i am ready to quit poker for good. frustrated but still playing my "A game", i decide to stay up until i'm even, which happens around 6am (another 200 hands).

thursday: up 70BB in 500 hands. i am an unstoppable poker god. everything hits. TT flops a set on two hands in a row at the same table. i start making plans for my new career as a poker pro.

friday: down 80BB in 1000 hands of 1/2 last night. an absolute disaster. two other 2+2ers sat and watched me donate an entire $100 stack in a matter of about two hours. in 1000 hands, i won exactly 4 pots larger than 10BB. all of my wins were tiny (opponents fold on the flop, etc) and all of my losses were ginormous suckouts on the river.

the good news is that i'm getting better at riding out the inevitable downswings. i just wish they wouldn't come so often.

[bisonbison]

Oh, the other thing I wanted to add, is that I spent some time a couple of weeks ago figuring out what it would take to support myself playing poker.

Forgetting all the nuances, it basically came down to 8k - 10k hands per week. In almost 10k hands at 2/4 this year, I've been up to 200BB, back down to 50BB and now back to 100BB.

It is humbling to imagine these swings as a potential part of one's job every single week, and I'm really grateful that I'm currently employed. I'm nowhere near the point where poker could be anything but cash for toys.

[mikeyKay]

ive been on a bit of a downswing myself, and i guess it feels somewhat good to talk about it and get it off my chest. i was doing some bonus whoring and wound up making a whole whole lot of money playing 2/4 on planet poker(my origial 200 buy in to 708)...it was an insane run, and i was just basically playing higher limits(i usually play .5/1) to get my bonus, plus the fact that planet and most of the other sites i was getting bonuses from didnt have good stat taking features. so, i cleared the bonus at planet and have now gone to ultimatebet, which has handed me a huge downswing, i guess i can expect it since i was so on fire in planet poker. i think im just going to have to drop down limits and take forever to finish the bonus off. not only has my 2/4 bonus game been bad, but my .50/1, goal +300BB game has been kinda bad lately. after a few weeks of playing really well at paradise and party, this week i have had 9hrs and 41 mins of table time +2.25BB...atleast im still up this week in that game, but half way though the week i was really closing in on meeting my goal at +282BB, but now im down to +256.25BB...oh well, looks like this wasnt the week, im thinking about taking a day off tomorrow, relaxing for a minute, read some parts of some books and maybe looking at a few hands tomorrow night...good luck to everyone else and their goals.
-mike

[PraetorianAZ]

My story:
After a long break from poker, I had $70 in an old account at Party so I decided to get serious and make a run at trying to make a living by poker.

Started in Feb and by mid-March turned the $70 into $650 at Party .5/1. Then I moved up to 1/2 and had two 75BB drawdowns immediately (bad cards + bad play + scared of variance)

It took me a few days to adjust before running straight up 350BB at 9BB/100. Now I've got well over $1200 and reached my goal to move to 2/4, but trying to work up the nerve. I'm worried about handling the variance, plus I've got to be on a run. This has been too easy.

My stats on 1/2 only:
VP$IP 14%
Raise 8%
W$SD 53%
W$WSF 30%
Aggression 1.5
BB/100 3.8 (this includes some very bad play in the beginning plus some experimenting so I'm confident my real rate is around 5BB/100)

Am I ready for 2/4? That is the question.

[bisonbison]

A rate of 5 BB/100 is very hard to sustain. 9 BB/100 is a huge upswing. In the longterm, a rate of 2-3 BB/100 is just dandy.

As for whether you're ready? Be prepared for high variance. 2/4 is almost as loose as .5/1, and more aggressive on all streets. Loose/aggressive games have the highest variance, and it's gonna seem like a lot for a while until you get used to the stakes.

Since you have a healthy 2/4 roll, I'd say give it a shot.

[PraetorianAZ]

1/2 was much tighter and trickier than 2/4. Is this normal? 2/4 seems like .5/1... The cold calls... the suck outs... the 3 outers... the call, call, call, then raise the river...

Day 1: +20BB to -40BB, ended -35BB after 500 hands

I don't see many skilled players. Am I missing something?

Bison and others at 2/4:
1. Should I start disguising my hands to milk bets or is tight/aggressive betting and raising still the correct mode of play?
2. Should I be more inclined to believe their river raises and fold or call them down?

[bisonbison]

Well folks, I've reached 300 BB @ 2/4.

Here are some stats, most accrued while multi-tabling 3 or 4 at Party.

Operation Boondoggle
Goal: .5/1 to 3/6 in 2004.
Milestones: 300BB @ each level.

Limit: .5/1
Hands: 10525
Earnings: +425BB
Rate: 4.04BB/100

Limit: 1/2
Hands: 8589
Earnings: +441BB
Rate: 5.13BB/100

Limit: 2/4
Hands: 18700
Earnings: +300BB
Rate: 1.60BB/100


My time at 2/4 so far has been, by turns, very easy and very frustrating. I've had two 4500 hand streaks of roughly +200 BB, and, sandwiched between, one 9000 hand streak of -130 BB.

Overall, since new year's, I've got 38 kilohands, and overall win rate of 3 BB/100 and more than 400 BB for 3/6. But I won't be moving to 3/6 quite yet.

I got laid off last week, and while I'm looking for another job, my goal is to play 1000 hands per day, which when multitabling, is about 4 or 5 hours, spread over 3 or 4 sessions throughout the day. So far so good (+210 BB), but I've become very protective of my bankroll and I doubt that my game and my self-confidence are ready for bigger swings at 3/6.

I'm going to continue at 2/4 until I'm able to bring my win rate above 2 BB/100, and then I'm going to venture, very carefully, into 3/6.

Oh, and if anyone in the SF Bay Area wants to hire a charming young man with tech support and tech writing experience, feel free to let me know.

[B Dids]

Bison,

You're moving up every 300? I had the impression that that would put your BR a little low for each level. I was originally thinking about moving up at 300, but now my goal is 550. Is that unnecessary?

I'm hiring, but of course, I'm not in the Bay Area.

[bisonbison]

Well, here's the thing:

I started playing online in October, and was just about a breakeven player at .5/1 through New Year's. I started Operation Boondoggle with a 200BB roll for .5/1, which I'm not counting in the totals.

With a 200BB roll to start, following it exactly would give:

200 BB + 300 BB at .5/1 = 250 BB for 1/2
250 BB + 300 BB at 1/2 = 275 BB for 2/4
275 BB + 300 BB at 2/4 = 383 BB for 3/6

Given that at each level, I've actually stayed longer than 300 BB, it's actually:

200 BB + 425 BB at .5/1 = 313 BB for 1/2
313 BB + 441 BB at 1/2 = 377 BB for 2/4
377 BB + 300 BB at 2/4 = 451 BB for 3/6


If there's one thing my play this year has taught me, it's that having a substantial bankroll is very important, and I've been properly bankrolled for all of this.

[dfscott]

Interesting.

One thing I've wondered: it seems to be generally accepted that you need 300BB at the new level to move up. However, when would you move down?

For instance, when I first started playing, I played 100 hands at .05/.10, thought I knew it all and moved up to .25/.50 with only 150BB. After a brief honeymoon where I made 20BB, I then proceeded to lose over 50BB before I decided I needed to go "back to school." However, if I had 300BB, when should I consider myself "outclassed" and what can I attribute to variance? 50BB? 100BB? more?

BTW, in a way I'm glad I wasn't successful; my time at the .05/.10 level has given me the luxury of trying several styles of play w/o worrying about losing too much. I'm now a very consistent and confident 4BB/hr player and just added a third table to the mix, so I feel much better about my time at nickel/dime.

[sfer]

Congrats Big B. I'm amazed how quickly you get your hands in. I'd be uncomfortable moving up with 2 BB/100--I'd get your win-rate above 3 BB/100 before making a really big push for 3/6.

I'd set you up with my recruiter ex-girlfriend about a Bay Area gig but we're not exactly on speaking terms. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[B Dids]

Here my goal chart from my site... tell me if this seems realistic.

My goal is to get to 550BB at .5/1 and then I'll move up to 1/2. I'll be moving up a level every time I have 550 BB's at that levell...

In terms of real money- here's how that looks:

Level Dollars
..5/1 $550
1/2 $1,100
2/4 $2,200
3/6 $3,300
5/10 $5,500
10/20 $11,000
15/30 $16,500
30/60 $33,000"

[tech]

Dids, just curious ... why so many BBs? If I have 300BB for any level, I feel like my bankroll is ready for it. The question is whether not my play is ready. I judge that in terms of number of hands, BB/100, and an overall feel -- not just by my bankroll.

I guess my point is that in the times I've played with you, you seem quite ready for 1/2. You have to do what you feel comfortable with, but I don't think you will be disadvantaged at all if you move up with less than 550BB.

[tech]

Sorry, DFW here or I could help.

bison, I would have PM'd this, but I'm curious if others see it the same way.

I'm not sure what type of job you are looking for exactly, but if I were you I would push your hand converter as one of your significant accomplishments. I have worked in the IT area for a long time, and it really is an impressive piece of work in my opinion.

There are lots of people who can code CGI, but what impresses me is the initiative (self-motivated), features (understanding the problem) and approach (problem solving).

Just my two cents. Good luck.

[MicroBob]

"That's a very short buy-in. Standard is about 25BB or $200 for 4/8."

havent had time to check out all the responses in this thread so this may have been mentioned previously.

at 3/6 and 4/8 LIVE, $100 is a standard buy-in.

if you came up to the 3/6 or 4/8 tables in Tunica with $200 it would look a little unusual imo.

best not to stick out too much.

[bisonbison]

At my local 3/6, 100 - 150 is standard. I think it's very fishy to buy in to a 4/8 game for 12 BB.

[B Dids]

Thanks...

I just want to have more than enough to deal with the swings. Part of it is that my real life bankroll (i.e., paycheck) isn't enough to support me if I busted at 1/2. I'd have to start over and I don't want to do that. Another part is that I tend to take this too emotionally, and if the BR is large enough, losses I might take won't phase me as much.

Have you played with me at anything other than the 2+2 table? I think that table has made me play better, and probably isn't totally representative of my normal ring game. Maybe that's a flaw in and of itself, I'm not sure.

[RcrdBoy]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks...

I just want to have more than enough to deal with the swings. Part of it is that my real life bankroll (i.e., paycheck) isn't enough to support me if I busted at 1/2. I'd have to start over and I don't want to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good thinking. Everyone is different, but I moved up to 1/2 with a hard earned 300BB roll and after some mixed results and a foray into SNGs I came back to .50/1 with about a 100 BB roll and proceeded to kick it down to 40.

Rebuilding your roll and dropping back down in levels can be two similarly difficult things to do for two totally different reasons.

Good luck.

-Mike

[tech]

Well, I think we all play a little differently at the 2+2 table than at a typical Party table. So no big deal there.

I played with you a few times when I was playing .5/1. Haven't played there in a while though.

[Zetack]

If I understood your post you are moving up with less than 300 BB's--that is moving up to 1/2 with 550 dollars, up to 2/4 with 1100--or am I misunderstanding that?

If so you aren't overfunding at all, but taking a fairly reasonable approach.

--Zetack

Edit: if my understanding is correct you and Bison are talking about the same thing in different terms, he's talking about having 300 BB's at the level he's moving up to (or 600 BB's at the current level) and you're talking about having 550 BB's at the current level or 275 BB's at the level you're moving up to.

[B Dids]

Gotcha- which probably means that my math fails between 2/4 and 3/6 and 5/10.

Math=not my best subject.

[sfer]

Keep your chin up Mike. Much better to move down with 100 BBs and run bad then stack off completely at 1/2 because you're stubborn or tilting.

[symphonic]

I was just about at the bankroll I wanted to play 1/2 safely, then I got involved at the 2+2 and now I need to add 25 more bb, to the other 25 I needed to make. Bastards :P

[B Dids]

Bumping this back up.

Just hit 500BB at .5/1. Only 50 more BB till I move up. Did it at a random table featuring one of my friends and 4 2+2ers...

[RcrdBoy]

Awseome.

You doing 4 tables?

[Jaran]

Hey Dids,
It was fun playing w/you (except for when you flopped the nut str8 against my pkt J's /images/graemlins/wink.gif ). Congrats on getting close to moving up.

-Jaran

[B Dids]

Nope- just two...

[B Dids]

Heh... JTs in the BB, had to defend.

[WannabePro]

I am also working on moving up to the higher levels on Party Poker.

Current Stats:

Level: .50/1.00
Hands: 19,149
Winrate: 4.83 BB/100 hands
Tables: at least 3 sometimes 4 at once
Current streak: last 3068 hands: -2.3 BB's

Level: $1/2 (full tables)
Hands: 2117
Winrate: 0.37 BB/100 hands
Tables: 3
Comment: I tried this level out briefly(5/10/04-5/12/04) and decided to continue at the .50/1.00 for a bit longer to build up my bankroll further. I plan to play a solid 10,000 hands at this level to get a better idea of what my winrate will be.

Level: $1/2 (6 Max)
Hands: 91
Winrate: -1.51 BB/100 hands
Tables: 1
Comment: I very briefly played at the 6 max for 1 hour, obviously this isn't long enough to draw any conclusions yet... I am still more comfortable playing at the full tables, however I may give the 6 max tables a real shot and play 10,000 hands to get an idea of how well I do at them compared to the full tables.



Starting bankroll: $500.00 (to take full advantage of the 20% deposit bonus)
Bonuses: + $100.00
Winnings: + $1,019.45
Cashouts: - $300.00
Current Bankroll: $1,221.75



Until my current poor streak I felt like the Bobby Baldwin of .50/1.00. Although looking at it on paper I see that it is only -$2.30, the fact that it occured over 3068 hands has made it feel like a -200 BB losing streak. Alot of it has been due to the cards, for example sets losing to oversets/flushes/straights and also having a couple flushes losing to overflushes. Some of it has been due to poor play/decision making and a few oversights caused by multi-tabling (capping it on the river with the nut straight while a flush was possible, the first time I have *EVER* done this, very embarrassing). Though I have the bankroll to move up I have decided not to until this current cold streak ends and I regain some of my lost confidence. Since this thread is now obnoxiously long I will probably go ahead and create a new one for my next update. I actually thought about creating a "David Ross" type of weekly poker journal which would keep track of my move from .50/1.00 to the higher levels but I do not think it would be as interesting. It would probably only contain statistics and a few highlight hand histories and not much else.

[Trix]

Congrats!

I hit 300BBs for 5/10 a few days ago btw.

[T0asty]

Wow, this is a great post, I'd just like to thank the contributors, it was a great read and a good incite.

I'll be joining you all in June, I'll have the BR to jump right into the 1/2, but i'm going to take the Mr B approach and have at least 10k of hands at each level and 300BBs won before moving up. I've just spent a month of SnGs only and although fun and profitable. I've missed limit and a BR project seems fun.

Good Odds all /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TommyTutone]

This is an awesome thread and I'll add my own feeble progress.

Started about seven weeks ago, not playing heavily (only 5000 hands played in that time) almost all .50/1. Most of that was at Party, though I did well also at Paradise. Ultimate Bet and Pacific Poker were disasters though. I left Ultimate before finishing the bonus and I left Pacific the minute I could, but was down, losing $75 of the $100 bonus.

I started originally at Empire with a paltry $45 deposit, missing any bonuses, as I didn't want the missus to know I was doing this, but got some early lucky streaks (I played like a rock early on) and decided to stick with it.

During the seven weeks, I've read Lee Jones' book and made a cheat sheet with it. I had already read ToP once, but have read it again, and have made a minor dent into THfAP (long weekend ahead will let me get through it). My game had gone from solid rock to wayyyyy too loose to a level I'm comfortable with, especially now that I know the concepts of playing for position.

That said, I logged off last night pretty early (just wanted to get 150 hands in to play in tonight's freeroll), but my stake is currently at $710. My biggest setback right now is that I am hooked on a computer game, City of Heroes that has eaten away at a lot of my time, and I am confident that my stake would be much higher than that by now if this game hadn't come out the same time I started getting into poker.

My final goal is to get a stake of $1200 so that I can play at the $2/$4 with some regularity and then just peel any excess off once a month for play/vacation money.

[Raiser]

I just thought I'd throw my story out there as a warning to those players who don't have either (a) a solid poker "plan" or (b) the will power to stay away from other games until the bankroll can support them.

Personally, I don't have the willpower and I have a weakness for the NL SNG's, so I eventually opted for the solid poker plan track.

Anyway, here's my progress so far...

Starting this year I was sitting at ~$230 playing .5/1. Got bored half way through January and decided to play some SNGs. I've had success with them in the past, but not this time. I played and played and played until I was down to a whopping $10. It was only at this time that I decided to go back to the .5/1 games. I gradually built up the roll, without having to rebuy, to about $510. It was at that time (~a month ago) that I decided to dabble in the 1/2 games. Got freaking hammered and was down to $350 within a week. I have no doubt that I can beat these games... I was just very cold decked at the time. So, I dropped back down and have built my roll back up to the current level of $580. Tonight, I'm going to start my new life as a 1/2 player. The games are tougher than .5/1, but I know there are a ton of lessons to learn there (blind steals, short handed pots, perhaps more semi-bluff opportunities).

So, long story short, I survived my idiocy, but learned a huge lesson about the value of being properly bankrolled. I have since made a plan (similar to Dids and bisonbisons) and will stick to it.

[B Dids]

From my blog.

"Just made myself a goal. Once I reach 5/10, I'm going to stop moving up, and set up some structure to cash out my winnings. (Like cashing out everytime I'm up 100 bucks or something). Seems like a reasonable goal that will take some time to reach, yet is also reachable."

Assuming 2BB/HR, that's about once a week depending on how often I play. Anybody else work with something like this?

[dfscott]

I finally got PokerTracker so now I feel like I can accurately report my own micro-limits quest!

I started on March 27th playing .05/.10 on PokerStars with $50. My long-term goal is to reach .5/$1 by the end of the year. (I have no idea whether this is conservative or not.)

My intermediate goal is to move to .25/.50 and then accumulate $350 so I can cash out 300BB at .5/1 BB and still have some money at PokerStars. Since there is a big gap between the low limits at PS (there is no .10/.20 game), I'm going to move to .25/.50 at only 200BB.

I'm almost exactly two months in and here's where I stand:

Current stats as of 5/29
Current Limit - .05/.10
Hands - 7,113
Earnings - 407BB
Rate - 5.73BB/100
VP$IP - 21.27
PFR% - 7.23
Agression - 0.90 (need to work on this)

Most of my play style comes from WLLH, although I've just finished reading TOP and am starting on HEFAP. However, I'm having a hard time figuring out what parts of HEFAP are applicable to these games.

I'm actually at about 450BB because I lost some hand data before I realized that PS only keeps your last 200 hands. So, I'm about 50BB from my next milestone, the 200BB I need for .25/.50.

[dfscott]

Just to clarify -- I'm cashing out the 300BB from PS to move it to PP because I think the fishing is a little better there. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[laceratedsky]

I'll add my own boring story here.

Started on April 20th with $300. My goal is to work my up in the limits to $3/$6 by July 11th for my Vegas trip so I could play $3/$6 comfortably while I am there. My long term goal is to make it to $15/$30 with a bankroll of $10,000. I'd like to do this by 2005.

I made it to $600 on 5/11 and decided to move up to $1/$2.

I got my stack up to $792 and thought to myself that this wasn't going to be very hard. I was wrong. I got pummeled back down to $605 and have manage to claw my way back up to about $650. I identified some leaks in my game and have worked to correct them. Hopefully I'll get on a good run soon as July 11th is right around the corner and my bankroll is woefully inadequate.

Glad to see so many others out there with like minded goals. Great thread!

laceratedsky
http://www.wtfman.com/poker/

[Matty]

[ QUOTE ]
My goal is to work my up in the limits to $3/$6 by July 11th for my Vegas trip so I could play $3/$6 comfortably while I am there.

[/ QUOTE ]Judging by what I've read around here, 3-6 in a casino should be a LOT easier than 3-6 online.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
Judging by what I've read around here, 3-6 in a casino should be a LOT easier than 3-6 online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. I don't have any first-hand experience, but a friend of mine that plays online just went on a trip to a casino in Florida. He played 1/2 and couldn't believe how loose it was. It was much looser than even the 0.05/0.10 tables he's been playing.

[Hedge Henderson]

Great thread, Bison.

Now, y'all don't laugh at me.

Operation Something from Literally Nothing (with apologies to Todd)
Goal: Turn $0 into solid knowledge on how to play the game, and maybe make a little money eventually.
Start: 29 February, 2004.
Immediate Goal: Take the free $2.00 Paradise gave me and turn it into enough to buy Pokertracker.
Long term goals: Be able to play $0.50/$1.00 (HE, O8, Stud, whatever) for kicks with no worries and kick some butt in my home games.
Current Limit: Paradise $0.02/$0.04 and $0.05/$0.10
Hands: Dunno. Best guess is around 6500
Earnings: Approx. 450BB at $0.02/$0.04 and 80BB at $0.05/$0.10
Rate: 14.13 BB/100 for my first thousand (Pokertracker trial version). It's dropped since then.
Comments: Man, poker is fun.

[Surfbullet]

Sweet thread... here's my little saga...damn this ended up being verbose...

Operation I Want PokerTracker Damn This Mac
Goal: $0.25 / $0.50 to $3/$6 by the end of the summer
Milestones: 300 BBs at each limit
Date Started: May 7th with $50 in pokerroom.com, $15 bonus.

started 1 table, added a 2nd the first day, 3 by the 2nd day, 4 by the 2nd week. No pokertracker so stats I record (ie table started at 9:58, end 10:30, +11.5BBs) and then compute spreadsheet-style.

300 BBs at 0.25/0.50 on May 15th
BB/hr: ~3.65 (approx 82 table hours)
BR: $196 - lost a few MTTs wasting about $14 (eventually losing another 5+1 for a total of -20)
approx 4,500 hands given 55-65 hands per hour

Moved up to 0.50 / 1.00 5max on May 19th.
BR: $288
BB/hr b4 move: 4.03
approx 7,000 hands given 55-65 hands per hour

Immediately after the move I went up a bit, but the higher variance of shorthanded and higher limits were tough, and I went cold and didn't adjust properly - dropped 80bbs ending on May 24th.

Moved Back Down to 0.25/ 0.50
BR: $207
BB/hr b4 move: 2.5
approx 10,000 hands given 55-65 hands per hour
Immediately after moving back down I continued into the worst ever slid for me - a total of -178BBs spanning 8-9 real hours of 4 tabling. (about 2,000 hands - i think)

First Huge Slide Ends!
BR: $168.70
BB/hr as slide ends: 1.7
approx 11,000 hands given 55-65 hands per hour
I hit rock bottom here - it starts to turn around slowly.

Moving back up to .50/1.00 May 31st
BR: $282.15
BBs earned at 0.25/0.50: 628.2
BB/hr: 2.58 (includes .50/1.00 time)
approx 13,000 hands

Back to where I was a week ago before the losing streak...The pokerroom 0.25/0.50 games are absolute fish-fests, but the 0.50/1 rarely has enough 10max tables to make it worthwhile - so I'm going to have to work on my shorthanded game.

I can't wait to switch back to a PC and get PT - it gets a little frustrating having to record all the details and transfer them to spreadsheet etc...

Regarding BB/100 - what is an accurate assumption for # hands / hr? I've just been doing BB/hr as a function of table minutes vs BBs earned - is there a better way to get BB/100?

Great thread Bison! I'll post updates from time to time - everyone needs a quest!


Dan

[B Dids]

As I mentioned in my own thread Just hit over 550B today. Now I'm going to take a few days to read and watch some play at 1/2 before I move up. Re-did my plans- here's the new numbers.

Level Dollars Date Reached
1/2 $550 5/31/04
2/4 $1100
3/6 $1650
5/10 $2750
10/20 $5500
15/30 $8250
30/60 $16500

[peacemaker]

I'll add mine to the list.

Original goal:


Started: Jan. '04
Goal: Turn $50 into $1,000 by the end of the year.
Current Bank roll: $850.

I got a big boost on Friday by winning $300 in Fridays $3+0 tourny @ Stars so I my have to come up with a new goal soon /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dfscott]

After a couple of near misses, I finally hit my next BR goal -- 200BB for .25/.50. I'm going with a little less than normal because due to the lack of a .10/.20 limit game at PS, I've had to earn this at .05/.10 (which is painful).

Here's where I stand now:

Start Date: March 2004
Current Limit - .05/.10
Hands - 9,047
Earnings - 504BB
Rate - 5.35BB/100
VP$IP - 20.73
PFR% - 7.09
Agression - 0.91

As a prize for hitting my goal, I can now play raked games and start accumulating FPP towards the PS bonus. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dfscott]

Update: Nine days ago, I moved up to .25/.50 early (at 200BB), so today I breathed a sigh of relief by hitting 300BB at the new level. It was very tough adjusting to the move, but I now feel more comfortable here than I did at .05/.10 -- the players seem much more predictable and my plays more clear (of course, it may be just experience, too). I have discovered that I play much better at this level if I play only 2 tables instead of my normal 3, because I'm actually trying to steal blinds, semi-bluff, etc. which require that I get at least a basic read on the players and/or table. TPTK is worth a lot more at these levels because you're not called down with junk as much, so I've been playing them very agressively and it's paid off well.

In addition, I'm also revising my goal: I was originally trying to move to .50/1 by the end of the year, but now I think that's probably too easy (of course, I probably just guaranteed myself a huge downswing now /images/graemlins/smile.gif). I now want to move to .5/1 by the end of September. I'm at $160 and while my original plan was to earn $350 so I could pull $300 and still leave some money at PS, I've decide to move to Party as soon as I have a big enough BR and just pull all the cash out and then fund back into PS from PP if I decide I want to do that.

Here's where my stats stand now:

Start Limit - .05/.10 (3/23/2004)
Current Limit - .10/.25 (moved up 6/5/2004)
Hands - 11,776
Earnings - 626BB
Rate - 5.32BB/100 (down .02 since last update)
VP$IP - 20.60 (down 0.1 since last update)
PFR% - 7.39 (up 0.3 since last update)
Agression - 0.97 (up 0.6 since last update)

Other than my BB/100 (which I attribute to adjusting to the new level), I feel good about the movements in all my stats.

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]

Level Dollars Date Reached
1/2 $550 5/31/04
2/4 $1100
3/6 $1650
5/10 $2750
10/20 $5500
15/30 $8250
30/60 $16500

[/ QUOTE ]

I suggest a further remodelling.

10/20 $6000
15/30 $10000
30/60 $24000

[ZootMurph]

Wish I had such a structured system.

I am playing 2 1/2 and 2 .5/1 games now, and I'm at $500. When I hit $600, I'll go all 1/2 games. When I have the bankroll (~$1200) and feel like I'm ready, I'll go to 2/4 (and when my stats back me up with a minimum of 10k 1/2 hands).

Does anyone incorporate tournament play in their plans? I play a few multi tournaments a week (was playing one a day, but I'm just not a good enough tournament player to continue to increase my bankroll playing so many tournaments). I usually play the Party 5+1 on Saturday and Sunday, and I try to qualify for the Sat 200+15 on the 9+1 multi satellites. Qualified through them 2 out of 4 weeks, but got kicked early both times /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[ZootMurph]

Since my last post, my plans have changed.

I just won a PP 30+3 for $4k, so I now have the bankroll for 5/10. Not going to play it yet, however.

I'm now going to play 2/4 exclusively (unless I see consistent losses), until I've played 10k 2/4 hands AND am up at least 300 BB. I'll be starting out at 2 tables, and once I'm comfortable (if I get comfortable) with the play there I'll move up to 3 then 4 tables.

When I hit my 10k hands/300 BB goals, I will try a single 5/10 table and see how that goes. At that point, if I can continue to compete, I will again increase my number of tables, etc. Again, I am looking for a minimum of 10k hands/300 BB at this level before considering the 10/20 level... and it will continue in this same fashion... my goal always being to play a minimum of 10k hands and earn a minimum of 300 BB. Also, I will need to have at least 300BB for the next level in the bankroll before moving up.

Ultimately, if I can become consistent enough to replace my real job income, I will begin to do this full time as my real job. As I told my wife, this is obviously a long way off. I'd need to play just over 40 hours a week making 3 BB/100 at 4 2/4 tables to do this. AND I'd need to improve and learn to play higher limit tables.

Over the past 2 months, I'm making 9 BB/100 at .5/1 and 5 BB/100 at 1/2 playing a 500 hands a day combined (2-3 hours a day with 4 tables running). I have over 15k hands at .5/1 and over 6k hands at 1/2 (full table only).

[B Dids]

Contgrats man!!!

I've been playing lots of tounaments, up almost 100 between that and some juicy ring sessions, and I've been toying with entering some of those to see if I can kick start my BR. I fear you may be a bad influence.

[B Dids]

Sat down and played 1/2 for the first time since I got my ass rolled earlier. I'd won enough 10/1 SNGs to have my bankroll at about $460. I was down about 10BB at a regular game, made some lousy plays.

Then I sat down at one of the Bad Beat Jackpot tables. I didn't to much until a 2+2er (cold_cash) sat down. Somehow his being there made me more concious of not making embrassing plays (like on the other table where with A2 I lead and Ace high flop and got like 4 callers and still kept betting until A9 took my money) and really played well. My BR is up to about 500, which means that I'm only 50 bucks away from where I started at 1/2.

I'm still on my "having fun this money" but if my fun keeps up at the pace it's been at, I should be more than back up to my goal, with the added benefit of not having to dump any more money back into party.

The added benefit is that I'm really enjoying the SNGs, and I'm pretty good at them, so that's a nice way to add to the BR as well.

[detruncate]

I haven't been very involved in this community so far, and it's probably past time that I changed that. Lets start with some goals. My immediate goal is to play a second 10k hands at .5/1 while maintaining or increasing my winrate. In practice, this means working hard to improve my understanding of the tactical and strategic context of individual decisions. Or less pretentiously, I want to turn down the suck and learn to play more better.

Short term goals include figuring out how to play more than my current 2 tables without drastically affecting my winrate, and building my bankroll to the point where I'm comfortably over-funded to move up limits when I feel ready.

My medium term goal is to find a comfortable combination of tables and limits that will bring in an average of $1000/mo. This will allow me to continue to put a reasonable amount of time into this project for as long as it proves both interesting and profitable.

My long term goals include a little beach house, a comfortable beach chair, and a wireless internet connection..

[Trix]

Hit 3.5K a few weeks ago, so went to play some 5/10.

These were my stats:

Hands - Winn/Loss - Combined.
208 | -23 | -23/208
201 | +129 | +106/409
299 | -151 | -45/708
273 | +91 | +46/981
66 | +227 | +273/1047
149 | -208 | +65/1196
404 | +224 | +289/1600
75 |+296 | At this point I really liked 5/10 /images/graemlins/grin.gif
207 |-328 |
403 |-270 | -78/2285
150 |-196 |
127 |-227 |-501/2562 or -20/100.

My roll is around 3K now and I´ll probably stay at 3/6 till it hits 4K, as I´m more comfy with 400BBs /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Have fun and good luck with your goals.

-Trix

[Zetack]

At first I thought those were BB's but I guess that's actually dollar amounts right? Cause I was going: holy crap you have huge variance!!!!!

--Zetack

[Raiser]

[ QUOTE ]
Then I sat down at one of the Bad Beat Jackpot tables. I didn't to much until a 2+2er (cold_cash) sat down. Somehow his being there made me more concious of not making embrassing plays (like on the other table where with A2 I lead and Ace high flop and got like 4 callers and still kept betting until A9 took my money) and really played well. My BR is up to about 500, which means that I'm only 50 bucks away from where I started at 1/2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Dids. I've noticed a few posts of yours regarding 1/2 and the new 1/2 bad beat tables at Party. I have been unable to beat the "normal" 1/2 tables consistently so I moved over to the bad beat tables recently and felt right at home. These are, IMO, just like the .5/1 tables. It feels good to be building the roll, but to be honest I'm a little worried that I'm missing a lot of very important lessons that I could get at the tighter "normal" 1/2's.

Basically, I'm positive I can build my roll very quickly at these tables and will be able to move up to 2/4, but I'm also pretty sure that when/if I get up to the 3/6 or 5/10 games I will have wished that I spent more time playing the tighter 1/2's.

Just curious if you (or anyone else) feel the same about this?

[JerseyTom]

OK, after (mostly) lurking for so long, I'll add mine:

Operation "Just Win, Baby"

- Play poker at various sites and just win, learning as I go and moving up levels only if I feel comfortable enough with my play at my current level and have more than enough bankroll for the next (350 BB or more; I don't ever want to have to reload)...
- Cash out a chunk for wedding rings (getting hitched in a few months; one-time purchase, hopefully...) and then occasionally for other toys.

While I'm prety sure I'm not a bad player, I don't know that I'm particularly good either. That said, here are some numbers from my play at Pacific (the only site at which I've played ring games for real money):


Limit: 0.10/0.20, Mar 09, 2004 - Mar 17, 2004

Hours: 22.4
Hands: 868
Winnings: +121.6 BB
5.43 BB/hour
14.00 BB/100


Limit: 0.25/0.50, Mar 17, 2004 - May 13, 2004

Hours: 74.6
Hands: 2886
Winnings: +343.0 BB
4.59 BB/hour
11.88 BB/100


Limit: 0.50/1.00, May 13, 2004 - present

Hours: 74.3
Hands: 3430
Winnings: +374.7 BB
5.04 BB/hour
10.92 BB/100



Thoughts on these numbers:

- VERY small sample size overall; don't get carried away
- Hard to analyze the quality of my play since Pacific is not compatible with PokerTracker (all stats above were compiled by hand)
- Pacific is notorious for having really bad players (that said, I can't recommend it highly enough if you're looking for another site to mess around on... if you can deal with slow software, no multi-tabling and no text hand histories... IMO, the games are just too good to pass up)


Next steps:

- now that I have PokerTracker, start playing at some sites that support it
- use a couple of bonuses to stake myself a BR for 0.50/1.00 at Party and see how that goes...
- probably throw $200 into Paradise as well to take advantage of a first-time bonus. Play there (I turned a free $2 into about $75 playing their NL ring games...), see how it goes...


More later...

[B Dids]

After some good luck at the SNGs my BR was back up to about 580. Since July 1 marked me getting back on the serious ring play horse, I put my nose to the grindstone, and in two days I'm at 605, which means I'm back up to 1/2. Good Times.

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
After some good luck at the SNGs my BR was back up to about 580. Since July 1 marked me getting back on the serious ring play horse, I put my nose to the grindstone, and in two days I'm at 605, which means I'm back up to 1/2. Good Times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Congrats, BD -- I'm about $400 and 2 levels behind you, but I follow your progress with interest, because I find I struggle with many of the same things that you do (based on your posts). Not trying to sound like a stalker, but your success encourages me as I close in on a BR for .5/1.

[Surfbullet]

Switched to Empire
BR:$500
Date: June 25th
Current limit: .50/1 full table

Back in the states, back on a PC. Got up to $500 playing .50/1 5max at pokerroom and moved to empire to get the deposit bonus and an affiliate rakeback. Also got pokertracker, and I'm lovin it.

Moved up to $1/$2 6max
BR:$600
Date: June 26th
Hands at .50/1: 1,000
BB/100: 0

cleared my deposit bonus and broke even at the .50/1 tables after 1000 hands, and moved up to 1/2... the .50/1 games at party are like the .25/.50 games at pokerroom so i dont feel the need to stick around and prove i can beat them all over again.

Bonus whoring at paradise
BR:$854
Date: July 4th
BB/100 at empire 1/2sh: 4.9 (running real hot, got a nice BR boost)
Hands: 2,900
got a 174.80 deposit bonus on Paradise's 4th of july bonus special.

Running hot at paradise
BR:$1150
Date: July 5th
BB/100 at Paradise 1/2 5max after 1200 hands: 5.9 (running so hot!)

Been getting great cards, and have adapted pretty well to the somehwat different playstyles on paradise...the bonus + the win streak has done wonders for my BR, though I'm nervous about the inevitable stall. All's well for now tho /images/graemlins/grin.gif


Revised goal: reach 5/10 6max on empire by the end of the summer with a healthy bankroll and be successful there... gotta start logging more hours! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Dan

[dfscott]

Setback: Well, I said it in my last post and now I've finally hit it -- the big slide. I'm recording it here for posterity. I've lost 87 BB in the last 3 days, wiping out 3 weeks of gains. I didn't help things by playing a bunch of SnGs to try and ease the pain (lost about $12 there). I don't think I went on tilt (much) and although I made my fair share of mistakes, I took some hard looks at my play and I feel that most of it was due to a) not having cards to play (if I get dealt one more K2o hand, I think I'm going to puke) and b) missing with the draws.

I can't believe it's only been 3 days -- it feels like an eternity. I think I've crossed my Threshold of Misery, however (not sure if that's good or bad) since the losses don't seem to effect me that much. I'm actually looking forward to maybe losing 100BB since that seems to be the Purple Heart of Poker. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously, I'm trying to be objective about it, though, and look at the fact that I'm up 150BB for the past 30 days (since I ran hot early). I'm also sticking with my goal of still trying to move to .5/1 by the end of September.

Here are my current stats

Start Limit - .05/.10 (started 3/23/2004 with $50)
Current Limit - .10/.25 (moved up 6/5/2004 with $200)
Hands - 15,527
Earnings - 658BB (up 32BB since last post)
Rate - 4.25/100 (down 1.07 since last update)
VP$IP - 20.19 (down 0.41 since last update)
PFR% - 6.99 (down 0.4 since last update)
Agression - 0.99 (up 0.02 since last update)

It's interesting that I've tightened up and gotten less agressive pre-flop, but more aggressive post-flop. Probably not that significant, but it's something I'm going to watch.

Of concern is the fact that my BR is down to $157 (314BB) so I'm closing in on the lower end of the BR limit for .25/.50. However, I've decided that I will not drop down to the next level as soon as I drop below 300BB, since that next level is .05/.10 and I'd really only need $30 to play there. I think I'll play this level down to $100. At that point, I will have lost 200BB and will need to take a hard look at my game before continuing.

I hope that my next post is a bit sunnier... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Greg J]

hey scott,

I'm encouraged by your longer term results. Poker is a game of short term variance, but I'm sure things will even out for you. I'm pulling for you, as I'm trying to do just what you are, only a couple of month behind you.

[SomethingClever]

Wow, I just read through this entire thread for the first time. I hadn't seen it before, since I only started playing limit and browsing this forum a short while ago.

Bison and Dids: I was surprised to learn that your "operations" had started so recently. I think I've learned more from both of your posts than anyone else, so I figured you'd been micro gods for years. Impressive stuff.

Shoot, now I need to reveal my master plan.

Operation: TV and Motorcycle

My goal is to buy a big-ass TV and motorcycle with money earned entirely from poker. I figure I'll need $600-1,000 for the TV, and another $1,200 for the bike. So we'll say $2,200 total.

History: I started playing NL $25 on Party last year, and built $25 into $285 playing like a maniac. Then, of course, I lost it all.

In March, after reading TOP, I played a bit on my brother's account, and, when I had earned $50, I had him transfer it to me. I built that into $510, then dropped back down to $320 and cashed out, sick of no-limit.

In the middle of that, I played around 6,000 hands of $0.01/$0.02 NL on Stars and made $85.

Now I've finally realized that limit is the way to go, and I bought back into Party/Empire with $300 of the $320 I cashed out earlier. This is also when I decided to set a concrete goal.

Results so far (estimates, because PokerTracker is at home)

Current limit: .5/1
Hands: 4,000
Earnings: +200BB
Rate: 5BB/100

I will begin playing one table of 1/2 and one table of .5/1 as soon as I reach 300BB for 1/2 (I cleared a $72 re-buy bonus recently, so I'm close).

[lu_hawk]

I've never bought a motorcycle before but $1,200 seems a little unreasonable. Are you just talking about the downpayment?

[dfscott]

[ QUOTE ]
hey scott,

I'm encouraged by your longer term results. Poker is a game of short term variance, but I'm sure things will even out for you. I'm pulling for you, as I'm trying to do just what you are, only a couple of month behind you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, Greg. Read your post over in the Psychology forum and can relate. Also just read one of Surfbullet's old quest posts and saw he had a huge slide at the .25/.50 level so maybe it's just a rite of passage. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never bought a motorcycle before but $1,200 seems a little unreasonable. Are you just talking about the downpayment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, I'm going to get a used bike. I bought a 1981 Yamaha Maxim for $800 in 2001. I had to sell it when I moved; now I want something similar.

[kiemo]

Looking over these other posts I realize I probably play the fewest amount of hours of almost everybody that posts here.

Start Limit - .05/.10 (2/13/2004 $50)
Current Limit - .05/.10 ($125)
Hands - 8759
Tables - 2 (occasionally 1)
Earnings - 760 BB
Rate - 8.66 BB/100 (7.01 BB/hr)
VP$IP - 20.64
PFR% - 8.31
Agression - 1.37
Winning Sessions 139/237 (58.65%) (2/8 in July - bad month so far)

I play pretty much on Pokerstars only and my plan was to get to $150 and move up to .25/.50. This plan was going slow but steady (ok really slow for this site where people start at .02/.04 and 3 weeks later are playing 8 tables of 15/30 6 max), but I have hit a rut at the 130 mark and over the last 3 weeks I have gone backwards. I might just move up at 10k hands becuase honestly I am sick of playing at the dime level.

I probably should check out some other sites as many here consider Stars to be some of the tougher games to beat.

I also thought about trying some NL play (and SnGs) as I have seen players I know arent very good win consistently at it becuase other players are even worse. I hesitate only becuase I see how many times I get sucked out at limit and I think I could lose alot of cash quickly with these same suck outs in NL

[Surfbullet]

Hey Scott,

I was bummed to read that you were in the middle of your first big slide - it definitely is a rite of passage for all burgeoning limit players IMO... I'm sure you'll make it through in fine form.
I hope it turns around for you sooner rather than later.

Dan

[EdSchurr]

Time to start making use of the 2+2 forums.

Operation Graduate Degree from Poker Also verbose...

I'd like to be able to pay for school with poker winnings, and to avoid taking a job next summer. After the spring semester ended, I had almost $0, and had to get a job as a janitor. Then I moved "up" into phone technical support. Please, poker, save me from this hell! If I save the rest I make this summer for school, and then my trust fund kicks in, I should be able to avoid working during school this year. That means a lot of time to play poker.

My conservative long term poker goals are thus to be able to make $1000CAD per month eventually. I figure $2USD/$4USD limit with multitabling can achieve that, or better. So really, I just want to move out of micro limits!

I got a friend to transfer me $2 on Poker Stars last fall. I turned that into $50 in total. But from him buying money from me, and me playing no limit (yikes) with him, my bank roll was at $15.

My job pays $1000CAD per month, and my rent cost is low, so I put $200CAD into poker. After CAD->USD fees, and buying Poker Tracker, I have $100USD online. I'm playing .25/.5, slightly under funded.

The quest has yet to begin, because I have 5 weeks of work left. I will be reading WLLHE and TOP again and again in the meantime I hope.

For those interested, I'm only starting this year to transfer to another school, for the first year of a bachelors and THEN a graduate degree in linguistics. <font color="green">$$$</font>

[detruncate]

The exchange rate is fun, isn't it? Every time I watch the financial report I look for that little red arrow with tail wagging excitement. $100 for the .25/.5 game should be fine. Especially if you don't mind dropping a few more bucks in a some point if things start out badly. WLLHE is a good place to begin, but his book was written for a significantly different game texture than you'll find at most micro tables, so hang around the forum to help you adjust. Post hands that you're unsure about (and even some that you are sure about), and comment on other people's hands, even if you're not convinced that your line is the best one. Most of all, don't get caught up in how well you're doing compared to where you think you should be. When that sort of mindset creeps in, any downturn or setback is magnified into a crisis... which turns into a self-perpetuating downward spiral of badness. Baby steps, non? Good luck.

[EdSchurr]

The thing that helps me over the exchange rate is thinking about how nice it will be to play $2/$4 one day and cashing out USD-&gt;CAD. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Regarding the psychology of it all, I think I'm at least a little bit prepared from all the forum lurking I've done. Also, I don't think I can make $2/$4 and a poker career by next summer, but because my dad subsidizes my education I could get by on a mere $250CAD cashout per month. $2/$4 is long, long term. By reading peoples posts I'm getting an idea of how much I'm going to have to put into the game to get where I want--a lot!

[ QUOTE ]
even if you're not convinced that your line is the best one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Btw, are you a chess player?

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
The thing that helps me over the exchange rate is thinking about how nice it will be to play $2/$4 one day and cashing out USD-&gt;CAD. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's exactly what I meant. I love the fact that I'm getting an extra .25 for every dollar I make. Means that you're shooting for an $800 month to make your $1000.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
even if you're not convinced that your line is the best one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Btw, are you a chess player?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope. A lot of people around here are, though. Did I pick up some chess jargon?

[EdSchurr]

[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what I meant. I love the fact that I'm getting an extra .25 for every dollar I make.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah. Right now I'm more focused on how small my bank roll is after putting in a big chunk of my pay cheque. But yeah, it'll be nice later on!

"Line" does happen to be in chess. When I saw you say it, I thought it fit perfectly, because I thought "line" was sometimes synonymous with "variation" in chess. Eg, "I found a better line/variation after 14. Bd4 than 14. .. e5". But I looked up one chess glossary which only lists line as "A rank, file, or diagonal". So now I don't know if that usage originates from chess or not. /images/graemlins/blush.gif But did you even mean it that way?

[B Dids]

If only hear to post.

My forray into 1/2 for the second time is going very well. Less than two weeks in and I'm up 140 BB. Just had my best session ever, up 54BB at a 6 max table.

Card is motherflippin' fun.

[detruncate]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That's exactly what I meant. I love the fact that I'm getting an extra .25 for every dollar I make.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah. Right now I'm more focused on how small my bank roll is after putting in a big chunk of my pay cheque. But yeah, it'll be nice later on!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree on all counts. Somehow it's just nice to convert my roll into CAD in my head every now and again. Stragely enough, my losses remain stubbornly unconverted.

[ QUOTE ]
"Line" does happen to be in chess. When I saw you say it, I thought it fit perfectly, because I thought "line" was sometimes synonymous with "variation" in chess. Eg, "I found a better line/variation after 14. Bd4 than 14. .. e5". But I looked up one chess glossary which only lists line as "A rank, file, or diagonal". So now I don't know if that usage originates from chess or not. /images/graemlins/blush.gif But did you even mean it that way?

[/ QUOTE ]

All I meant by 'line' was 'advice' or 'interpretation'. I try to pack meaning into my prose, but I think you went a layer or two too deep. Though it's entirely possible that I'm straying too often into crytpic inner dialogue territory.

[Blarg]

My favorite cryptic inner dialogues are the ones Homer Simpson has -- like when he says his mind is moving a mile a minute and a thought bubble pops up with flies buzzing over a sleeping donkey.

Hey this is a great thread. I just started reading it late last night, so tired I had to read some parts 3 times for it to register, and I finished up just now after coming home from work. Very inspirational!

I have to refine my play quite a bit more before I set a concrete goal for myself, because I think it would be foolish for now, for me. I'm going to wait till Ed Miller's book comes out and then try to digest that very, very well - make flashcards, the whole 9 yards like I did when I was studying 7-stud. I advanced extremely quickly in that game due to hard study of Chip Reese's 7-stud section in Super System and Ray Zee's 2+2 book on stud. I've fooled around a tiny bit in live casinos with low limit hold'em, but took like five years off poker and am just now getting back. I've been playing strictly online hold'em since starting up poker again around the middle of May 2004.

I got Pokertracker and have recorded 1,249 hands of .5/1 and got a whopping $7.54 out of it. Great, huh?

I didn't find $1/2 any harder while playing it, so I just sort of drifted into it, and now have 13,858 hands with a profit of $518.93 for a "True Win Rate" under the "Sessions" tab in Pokertracker of $5.69/hr and 2.85 BB/hr. By the way, I just started paying attention to the "True Win Rate" and it makes a lot of sense to me. I play two to four tables at a time, and my BB rate of 1.09/100 doesn't really tell me much about my hourly rate overall, since how many tables I play varies so much depending on my mood, how tired I am, etc. Now I know though that I'm making $5.69/hr at $1/2 and it seems more relevant than the other three or four ways that Pokertracker gives you of looking at a win rate.

Oh, a side Grrr...last night I had a hundred bucks more but one guy got trip deuces against me twice in 3 hands, another guy got four queens on me, and three more guys got trips on me all in the space of an hour! All on the same table, too. It was bad enough that my win rate after 13k hands on AA and KK and AK suited and unsuited actually dropped a few percent just from that hour alone. I was getting good cards! My trip kings lost, etc etc. Oh well.

On the flip side, a couple days ago I made $97 on a single hand of $1/2 hold'em, so I guess it was my turn to suffer yesterday!

Great posts all, great thread. When I get more confidence, I'll post a concrete goal or two myself.

I can say, though, that my vague, hazy, non-time-delimited long-term goal is to be able to play a winning 5/10 game on four tables at once, or to be able to earn the equivalent in BB/hr to that playing 3 tables, which to me is much more comfortable than 4 tables. I figured that would add up to a reasonable income, and considering I used to be a winning $15/30 stud player, I'm optimistic that sooner or later I should be able to manage $5/10 hold'em. Not sure about how well I'd do at 4 tables at once, though, but we'll see. I'm still only playing $1/2, so this is all well in the future.

It would be great to be able to play $10/20 or $15/30 like I used to play stud, but that's I think a long way away, and there's no guarantee I'll ever get that good in hold'em.

Anyway, best of luck to you all, and thanks for the great read. I hope to have enough of a handle on my game soon that I can make some clearer, more concrete goals myself.

[skierdude1000]

Before I started playing limit I had 150 Bankroll , now down to 100

My goals:
-learn how to win more than I lose
-Move up from .25/.5 to .5/1

[detruncate]

I just finished my second month at .5/1, and things are going reasonably well so far. I've played over 20k hands, and am starting to get more comfortable with the basics. My bankroll is now sufficient to move up to 1/2 with 500 BB, and I'll probably be testing the waters before too long. Thanks to all of you who have been generous with your time and experience. I have every intention of following your example.

In the past few days, I've reprised the story thus far here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/detruncate/, and I intend to update it more or less regularly going forward. Feel free to stop in and say hello if you're so inclined. For those interested in temporal continuity, start at the bottom and work your way up.

Luck to all.

[dfscott]

Update: Turned around my big slide soon after my last post and started shooting back up like a rocket. Dumped SnGs for a while to concentrate on limit play and I think that helped. Hit $298 at PS and decided I was close enough to 300BB for Party (especially since I had a PP bonus that was about to expire). Moved $200 to PP and started mixing 1 table of .5/1 with 1 table of PS .25/.50. Needless to say I've beat my goal of moving to .5/1 before the end of September, but I'm going to continue .25/.50 for a while because I'm still 1500 hands short of 10K at .25/.50.

Current stats:

Start Limit - .05/.10 (started 3/23/2004 with $50)
Current Limit - .50/1 (moved up 7/16/2004 with $298)
Hands - 17,377
Earnings - 984BB (up 326BB since last post)
Rate - 5.64/100 (up 1.39 since last update)
VP$IP - 20.10 (down 0.09 since last update)
PFR% - 6.93 (down 0.06 since last update)
Agression - 1.01 (up 0.02 since last update)

[Rudbaeck]

I was about to move up to 1/2 just before I found the 2+2 forums. I was at 3.71BB/100 over the last 10k hands, and felt I had a decent safe game going.

After coming here I realized I was a classic weak-tight, and decided to remedy this at the 0.5/1 level instead of trying to be more aggressive AND move up in limits at the same time.

Operation Increased Aggression has so far had the net result of -0.1BB/100. And I know why, it rekindled my once overcome bad habit of not releasing big pocket pairs. Also I sometimes end up on the maniac side. (I too often raise in situations where I should have just called down. But I am also very critical of my thought process every time I think I should call down, as this was a common weak tight error before.)

I bonus whore a fair bit, mostly doing Captain Cooks every Sunday (100% match on $50) and all the Cryptologic rooms once a month. (For $400, sometimes a bit extra when the casino bonus survives WR.)

I do however withdraw most of my whore cash. It's summer, I'm an unemployed student. And getting the 300BB for the next limit at each limit is good practice. I'll probably shoot for 400BB before moving up, or $800.

Hopefully I'll be able to slowly and steadily climb the ladder of limits. I don't expect to ever win the WSOP, but it sure would be nice to be able to hold my own in the juicy 15/30 games on Party.

[Soggy Salmon]

Since yesterday was my 4 month anniversary for starting to play online for money, I guess I will post my journey here.

March 17, 2004 was when I started with a $60 deposit into Party. Party conspiracy theorists take note: I lost immediately. And kept losing. I went all the way down to $4.50. I would have busted out if I had lost that last hand. I didn't though and I started climbing up.

About April 16 - after playing like crazy for a month (about 20,000 hands) I was breaking even. I made a big whiny post about it here. I guess whining worked because it was then that things finally started clicking for me and I started beating the .5/1 games consistently.

When my bankroll hit $400 or so, I decided to try out 1/2. I loved it so I stayed there. I still like the 1/2 full games at Party. I do best at weak-tight tables and 1/2 is full of 'em. If I lost my job and was forced to play poker for a living, I would 6 or 8-table 1/2. It is where I feel most confident.

I clobbered 1/2 for a while then when my bankroll was at $950, I tried out 2/4. Ugh. The days of huge swings started. It was grand when I made like $500 in a week, not so swell when I lost $400 in two days. Ick.

I struggled through these swings for a while and when my bankroll was at $1500 I gave 3/6 a shot. I was not ready for 3/6 I had no confidence at 2/4. It was a mistake. I liked it at first because it was tighter (I know, I know. Shoot me, I honestly do do better at tighter tables) but it was more agressive and the swings were just as bad as at 2/4. But I managed to run my bankroll up to $2,080. Then a BIIG downswing and got very discouraged and realized that I am not a natural-born poker champ.

So I started over at .5/1. I tried to stay there but it was too boring and I didn't feel I was learning anything. So I moved back up to 1/2.

I am at 1/2 mostly now. Occasionally I will play a 2/4 game, but I don't think I am ready. I am still having horrendous swings even at 1/2 now. Until I get my confidence back, and learn how to play, I am staying here.

I did not have Pokertracker for most of the hands I have played, but the 28,000 I do have in there show me at 2.8BB/100 hands and total winnings according to my Neteller cashouts and what I have left in my bankroll is $2,640. So I guess I can't complain.

[B Dids]

My update.

SWING, SWING, SWING.

Currently at 461.5BB for 1/2. I've been up as much as 502. Everytime I hit the 1K limit I get slapped back down (where "everytime"=twice). I have to keep reminding myself that these swings will happen, especially in 6 max, and that like I mentioned in the other thread, everything is an opportunity to learn.

What's frustrating is that the level of play at 1/2 6 Max is very low. So often when you're beat it's by very bad players. At least to me, it's far my psychologically damaging to lose to people who are lousy. So I just keep my head up, and know that I'll get 'em back some day.

[nwaddell]

I came across this thread and decided I’d tag along too.

Operation: In case I don’t get a job after law school

I’m starting at Party Poker’s $.5/$1 tables. I started this “quest” before I had read any of your posts, mostly concerning BR. Oops. I started with $50 in my account. But things are going fine, so I’m not overly concerned. Suggestions on whether to add money or not would be appreciated. I’ll post stats below. My goal, as you can see from the title of the operation, is to possibly have an income, in case the legal market remains in flux and the jobs are not available. I’d like to work my way up to a limit where I could have a steady income, if necessary. Suggestions as to what that limit might be would be greatly appreciated. I currently have a job (that I hate) so I’m unable to play a whole lot. Nights and weekends are my “prime times”. So this project may be slow going until I have more time after school starts in the fall.

Again, any suggestions/comments on any of my stats would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the thread and the opportunity to tag along.

All stats from .5/1 at party:

Total Hands: 2010
Amount Won: $75.68
BB/100: 3.77
VP$ITP: 22.84
VP$ISB: 42.98
W$WSF: 28.71
W$SD: 50.45
Aggression Factor (including PF): .90
Aggression Factor (not including PF): 1.61

Thanks everyone.

[Brain]

[ QUOTE ]
So what's the best plan when $1/2 sucks and $2/4 places several weeks of profit at risk to give it a decent shot?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play only at Party? I like the Party 0.50/1 and I also play the Stars 1/2 and seem to be doing okay there.

[btspider]

[ QUOTE ]
Again, any suggestions/comments on any of my stats would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the thread and the opportunity to tag along.

All stats from .5/1 at party:

Total Hands: 2010
Amount Won: $75.68
BB/100: 3.77
VP$ITP: 22.84
VP$ISB: 42.98
W$WSF: 28.71
W$SD: 50.45
Aggression Factor (including PF): .90
Aggression Factor (not including PF): 1.61

[/ QUOTE ]

Also post your pre-flop raise and folded to river bet. Your aggression is low, so post the breakdown of it on all streets. Keep in mind your sample size is small, but probably large enough to see a trend in aggression.

[nwaddell]

PF Raise: 6.06
Folded to River Bet: 36.27 (wow, i've never looked at that stat. seems a bit high to me. is it?)
Agression Stats:

Player Actions Raise Bet Call Check Fold

Pre-Flop 6.21 0 18.85 8.20 66.74
Flop 4.75 20.99 19.67 33.70 20.88
Turn 5.10 25.80 15.13 31.85 22.13
River 6.89 32.91 24.74 25.77 9.69

Total 5.80 11.34 19.02 18.76 45.09

i tried to get the numbers to line up the best i could. thanks for your help.

[B Dids]

Swing, Swing, Swing.

Currently at 472BB for 1/2. I made that in about the first two weeks of playing 1/2 6 max and have swung back at forth about 40BBs (as low as 450ish as hihg as 516). I hope/think that's just the variance of playing SH games, but I haven't been playing optimal poker. I cleared the empire500 bonus yesterday, so I'm taking at least the next week off from limit poker to read SSHE and play some tournaments.

[sfer]

Hey B-Dogg, are you full time shorthanded now?

[B Dids]

Pretty much, unless I just find the varriance too painful. Full ring just isn't as fun for me.

[flair1239]

I have been playing for about 4-months, had good luck early. Turned $300 into $700 playing 1/2, 2/4, and multi-table tourneies.

Gave $600 back because I was "addicted" to tournies and started running bad and stopped playing ring games, (and after doing serious studying the last (2) months, I have realized that I got very lucky early on.).

Two weeks ago I decided to get serious, I had just won a tournie and got my bankroll back up to $400, and did not want to hand it back in entry fees. I stopped playing tournies and decided (with advice from this forum to play within my bankroll.

Here are my intial early results:

PP .5/1
Hands: 983
Hours: 18.31
Winnings: $74.25
bb/100: 7.55
$ per hour: 4.06

I am going to spend $60 out of my bankroll for Poker Tracker; as I am in no hurry to move up. Because I have discovered numerous leaks in my game and would like to take the time to patch them at this level.

[Bill Smith]

Well, this will be my first official progress report. I owe a lot of thanks to a lot of people on this forum for even getting to the point where I can set this kind of goal only 2 months after my first (busted) online poker experience.

Goal: Profit at 3+ tables of 3/6 by Jan 1, 2005
Current limit: 4 tables of .5/1

Stats (beginning Jun 30, 2004)

Hands: 7,453 @ .5/1 limit
VP$IP: 18.78%
Average profit/loss: +6.14 BB/100

I lost my exact lifetime stats when I reinstalled Windows, but I estimate I had about 11,000 hands under my belt prior to keeping HH's in lieu of buying PokerTracker, and I was making about 2-2.5 BB/100. I have the BR to move to 1/2 at this point, but with the complaints I've heard from bison and others about the 1/2 tables at Party, and from my own dabbling at 2/4 (see below) I think I'll skip 1/2.

After a roller coaster .5/1 session (was up over 100 BB at one point, finished 45 BB ahead) I decided to change pace and play a table of NL$25 along with a table of 2/4. I seem to have no trouble holding my own playing a single table of 2/4, but on this particular day I was sucked out repeatedly by a maniac who was check-raising with hands as low as bottom pair 3 kicker, then catching the 5 outer on the turn or river. However, despite that and a VP$IP under 14% (my standards did not change) I finished down only 11BB, so definitely nothing to get upset over.

Fortunately, I made up the difference on the NL table. I had previously been very successful at freebie NL tourneys at PokerPages, and so far my limited NL$25 experience has proven to be quite profitable. I've started watching the Pot/NL forum more and I think I'm going to continue to play it occasionally. It's nice to get away from the rigors of playing four crazy tables once in a while.

EDIT: grammar

[josh1122]

Here is my online poker story.

I was just an average person looking to have some fun playing poker online and get into the Hold'em craze. I deposited $100 into party and lost it in a matter of weeks. This continued for about 3 months every other week or so until I was net -$900. I wasn't too phased by it, as it was "just for fun".

On my next deposit, I placed fifth in a $5+$1 MTT on party for about $350 and was thrilled. I had recently read Lou Krieger's book which was a gift from my gf and I thought I could own the poker world.(Not to say the book is bad it's just not enough on its own) I said to myself, "No more of this low-limit crap, now I can play some decent level games." I went on a huge rush playing $2/$4 and $20+$2 Sit-and-Goes and was looking at a roll of about $900. Up up and away we go again, now to $5/$10 and $50+$5 Sngs. (I had no clue of the term "risk of ruin" at this point btw) Another huge rush put my roll up to over $2500 and boy was I feeling good. I cashed out $900 to let me play with all profit. Things were well, so let the good times roll right?

Well, needless to say, my not-so-great play, constantly moving up in limits and violating the risk of ruin policy, and a little bad luck caused me to lose the entire $1600 I was ahead. I went on vacation about two days later and tried to think things through and clear my head of the anger and frustration of losing all that money. "It wasn't my fault," I thought,"Those damn bad beats are what are to blame." I was only slightly correct in that assumption, as I now realize bad play contributed mostly to my downfall.

I began to deposit the money I had cashed out back into Party $100 at a time, still not knowing about risk of ruin I kept playing at $2/$4 hoping to score big. It never happened and I ran -$900 again. I realized that maybe I was doing something wrong and then it hit me. I wasn't very good at this game. It was at this point I decided to get serious and stop screwing around. I went out and bought 4 or 5 well recommended poker books and read and reread them all. I then deposited $50 into party(money was tough at this time) and havent looked back since. It has turned into $350 now at $.50/$1 and thanks to a little education and help from these forums (and maybe some luck) I have never felt better about my poker skills. I will invest in pokertracker soon and will continue to find every way possible (namely the help on this site) to hone my skills and regain my lost funds and eventually make a lot of $$$$$$.

[dfscott]

Great post, Josh. I'm sorry you had to lose so much to get on the right track, but don't think of it as lost, think of it as leant to the fish. Stick to it and the fish will repay it soon enough.

[bisonbison]

Operation Boondoggle is finished. Mission accomplished.

Some background: At the beginning of this year I was a slightly profitable .5/1 player. In 2003, with 5000 hands in .5/1, I was winning 1.5BB/100. Okay, but not anywhere near the kind of rates people were posting for the party micros. I wanted those kind of inflated rates, and setting some concrete goals let me measure my progress and stay motivated throughout the micro grind.

I started this thread before I figured out how to play winning low-limit hold'em, before I created the converter, before I started posting so much, before many of you joined the boards. In short, a long time ago. Here's what I've done since the first of the year, mostly 4-tabling:

Operation Boondoggle
Goal: .5/1 to 3/6 in 2004.
Milestones: 300BB @ each level.

Limit: Party .5/1
Hands: 17,407
Earnings: +636BB
Rate: 3.66BB/100

Limit: Party 1/2
Hands: 8,880
Earnings: +410BB
Rate: 4.62BB/100

Limit: Party 2/4
Hands: 37,042
Earnings: +622BB
Rate: 1.68BB/100

Limit: Party 3/6
Hands: 15,286
Earnings: +302BB
Rate: 1.97BB/100

Overall:
Hands: 78,615
Rate: 2.51BB/100


So it's 8 months later, I'm playing 3/6 and doing well. I had some bumpy variance at 2/4, but I think I went through a period of bad play and bad luck, and the fact that I'm making it in the 3/6 game leads me to believe I'd do fine if I moved back down.

What's next? I don't know. I have some job interviews coming up next week, and if I can get a steady source of income I can start really building my roll again. If that's the case, I'd like to make the 15/30 game by the end of 2005. It's a long road and I still have a lot to learn, but Boondoggle was fun, and it's more fun and frustrating and exciting and scary the higher I go.

[Greg J]

Awesome man! I'm happy for your success. I think you have made a useful guide to success for new players with this thread, and the idea of concrete goals. I need to start getting my ass in gear and doing something like this myself. (Maybe 1/2 by the end of the year.)

[detruncate]

here's to endings and beginnings

and the bitter/sweet moments in between

congratulations sir

[dfscott]

Congratulations, bison!

I'm really glad that you've been so successful, especially considering all that you've done for the 2+2 community.

Following your example, I've set similar goals myself, as have many others. Considering that we have several benefits that you didn't (SSH, the influx of fish, and who knows what else), I'm hoping that I'll be able to accomplish them as well.

You already answered my next question: "what's next?" I've always wondered if the increased concentration required at the higher limits would prevent (or limit) multi-tabling to the point where it would be less beneficial to move up. From what you're saying, that's not the case, so I guess I'll be girding my loins for a long climb.

I started playing .05/.10 in March of this year and took my first tentative stabs at 2/4 last night. At the risk of sounding mauldlin, I don't think I would've been doing that without the help of you, your hand history poster, and the rest of the experienced 2+2'ers.

Thanks again and good luck!

Edit: Reformatted in paragraphs since something ate them the first time. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[what]

I started less then a month ago with $40 at Pokerroom. I turned it into 250ish playing at .25-.5 then moved to party and started playing .5-1.

The Stats (4 tables, .5-1)
HANDS: 14,929
VP$IP: 21.33
PFR: 7.58
TOTAL AGGRESSION: 1.23
BB/100: 2.16

Some of your stats trouble me. Should I be making more at such a low level?
My total agression is probably too low, but I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong to improve it? Anyone have any advice?

[Entity]

This place has been great for me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Prior to August 1st (just beginning to read 2+2, and hadn't read SSHE yet):

VPIP: 27.74
BB/100: 2.43
WtSD: 42.07
W$SD: 46.38
PFR: 8.17
Tot-A: 1.00

After SSHE, reading lots of posts here on 2+2, and learning a lot:

VPIP: 20.45%
BB/100: 8.18
WtSD: 35.77%
W$SD: 51.7%
PFR: 9.31
Tot-A: 1.29

Still working on that Tot-A.

I've got a few hands that seem to be a bit leaky (TT is my biggest loser), but I don't think my sample size is large enough to tell yet.

Small sample sizes, I know (only around 5-6k hands total), but I'm moving in the direction I want.

Rob

[bisonbison]

You already answered my next question: "what's next?" I've always wondered if the increased concentration required at the higher limits would prevent (or limit) multi-tabling to the point where it would be less beneficial to move up. From what you're saying, that's not the case, so I guess I'll be girding my loins for a long climb.

Multitabling has become more difficult as I've moved up, there's no doubt about that, but since I've been multitabling the entire time, my learning curve has automatically accounted for that. It's not for everyone, though, and you're basically exchanging more money for slower progress. In some cases, I think it can be counterproductive to your ability to move up.

I think my next step will be fortifying my bankroll to at least 600BB for 5/10. That ought to take a while, since I currently have only 200BB for 5/10. Then I'll either take a stab at 5/10, or start learning how to play short-handed by moving to Party 1/2 and moving up in the SH games from there. Probably, I'll go the latter route, since I feel like it's pretty profitable and it's something that's still a clear shortcoming in my game.

[chesspain]

Mazel 'Tov! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[AncientPC]

Before August 2004 (and thus before reading 2+2):
1/2 SH:
<ul type="square"> 1170 hands
44.1% VPIP
0.11 BB/100
31.77% WtSD
52.79% W$SD
9.57% PFR
[/list]

0.50/1:
<ul type="square"> 1939 hands
46.78% VPIP
-3.18 BB/100
34.59% WtSD
47.21% W$SD
5.62% PFR
[/list]

For August 2004 so far:
1/2:
<ul type="square"> 500 hands
28.00% VPIP
-9.75 BB/100
29.61% WtSD
37.74% W$SD
3.40% PFR
[/list]

0.50/1:
<ul type="square"> 8221 hands
23.94 VPIP
2.90 BB/100
31.83% WtSD
51.59% W$SD
4.49% PFR
[/list]

NL 25:
<ul type="square"> 1585 hands
33.56% VPIP
-2.47 BB/100
28.42% WtSD
45.55% W$SD
9.09% PFR
[/list]

I take occasional stabs at NL 25, but can't handle the variance (mentally). I'm net +200, then I'm net -40 in the same weekend.

I also have a tendency to go on tilt after bad beats in NL. In limit I'm multitabling and I kinda get used to the beats since people call with everything so I shrug it off, but it's when I go all in with monster hands only to be beaten by marginally better monster hands (or crap hands in some cases) a few times that throws me on tilt.

I'm in the middle of reading WLLH (my first book) and it's helped my pre-flop play, but I think it's making me weaker post flop as now I tend to see all the monster hands that can beat me as opposed to playing more aggressively with good hands.

5400 hands in .50/1 pre-WLLH and I'm 3.8 BB/100 with 25% VPIP, but post-WLLH with 2900 hands and I'm 1.3 BB/100 with 20.6% VPIP. Then again it could just be a bad stretch of cards . . .

I just need to dicipline myself and stick with 0.50/1 instead of blowing all my money at the 1/2, NL 25, or SNGs like I'm doing right now (I placed 2nd once out of 5 $10+1's).

[Aviston]

Well, I might as well join the bandwagon and tell my story as well /images/graemlins/smile.gif. A couple of months ago I deposited $240 into UB to start my online poker career. I'm not sure why $240, nor am I sure why I chose UB but meh, whatever. I joined 2+2 around the same time, and immediately saw all of the 'WE LOVE PARTYPOKER' posts. I was stubborn, however, and stayed at UB.

I had never played limit Hold 'Em before (I played NL ring home games). In the first 2 days I went down 100 BB at .25/.50 and felt pretty rotten. Looking back, my play was mediocre at best, but it didn't help that I was running so awful. At one point, I flopped a set three times in twenty hands (not twenty hands I played, mind you, but twenty hands I was dealt) and lost every single one of them. I dropped down to the nano-limits at UB just to make sure I wasn't a terrible player.

About this time a friend of mine from my home games wanted to play online poker as well. Unfortunately, he didn't have internet, nor did he have an account at UB, so I let him use mine to play SnGs. He'd pay me in cash for the entry fees, and then proceed to lose /images/graemlins/smile.gif. I also played SnGs for a couple of weeks and managed to win back the money I had lost at .25/.50.

Unfortunately, my friend was down $190 so my account had $50 in it (although I had the $190 in cash). Rather than redepositing the money, I figured I'd move back to .25/.50 and see how far I could take my current $50. I got off to a great start, and after two weeks, had the BR requirement of $150 (my first milestone). It took me another two weeks (this is one week ago) to reach 300 BBs for .5/1 and my first true move up.

I tried the .5/1 games at UB, but they were absolutely horrendous. Two players to every flop, yadda yadda. I cashed out of UB and moved to PP this past week. I've been suffering some internet problems, and so I haven't gotten in very many hands at PP but I have been running well and making decent progress. Here's my stats for UB .25/.50 and PP .5/1:

UB .25/.50
VP$IP: 16.94%
PFR: 6.64%
Aggro: 1.90
BB/100: 7.40

PP .5/1
VP$IP: 14.54%
PFR: 5.3%
Aggro: 3.08
BB/100: 9.59
Currently up: +70 BB

Granted, PP is a very small sample size, so those numbers don't mean much at all.

As for goals, I'd like to continue to improve and hopefully reach 2/4 by the end of this year. Looking further, I certainly would be thrilled if I could reach the 5/10 limit by next summer, but we'll just have to see how things go. Good luck all!

[Trix]

Hi Bison

Congrats. You sure have played many hands /images/graemlins/grin.gif ..

It´s been long since I have updated in this thread and I probably will in 1500 hands or so when I reach 10K 3/6 in PT. Have around 10K before aswell. Started at University, so cant play/post as much as I used to anymore.

It has been good and enlightening to discuss hands with you. It will be exiting to see where we are at the end of this year.

[skirtus]

I've been playing online for about 3 months. Started with $30 at Paradise in June. I spend about 50% of my time at the .50-1.00 tables and the rest of my time playing No Limit SnG's and MTT's. My wife is now hooked on online poker and I started her on the .05-.10 at Paradise. She is now playing .50-1.00 after reading several poker books. We both have accounts at Party, Empire, and Pacific. Plan to expand to at least one more site in September. I discovered 2+2 forum in July. This site was a real eye opener. Here are my stats so far. We just started multi-tabling and I expect the number of hands we play to increase dramatically over the next few months.


Hands 5994
VP$IP 16.22
Preflop Raise% 6.92
Postflop Agro 2.82
BB/100 5.78

Our combined bankroll is $1600 now. We are working our way through SSH and will be making the jump to $1-2 when we feel confident in our play. Our combined bankroll is $1600 and our longterm goal is to generate 2-3K in monthly income. This site has been a great source of info and I would never have been this successful without it.

[BellyBuster7]

[ QUOTE ]

Some background: At the beginning of this year I was a slightly profitable .5/1 player. In 2003, with 5000 hands in .5/1, I was winning 1.5BB/100. Okay, but not anywhere near the kind of rates people were posting for the party micros. I wanted those kind of inflated rates, and setting some concrete goals let me measure my progress and stay motivated throughout the micro grind...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is almost exactly where I'm starting at right now. I've been playing for a few months at .5/1, and by some miracle, have been slightly profitable. I'm reading Ed Miller's book and reading this forum just about every day, and I hope to achieve results similar to Operation Boondoggle. I totally suck at multitabling, so that is a severe handicap of mine right now. I'd be very happy if I could make it to 2/4 or 3/6 at this point, and who knows what from there.

Anyway, thanks for the inspiration.

[TommyTutone]

Follow up to mine. I started on the day before Easter with $45 at Party, playing like a freaked out solid rock, getting the money up very slowly, but always up. I had read no books at this point, so the fact that I ended up ahead was a lot of good luck.

Stayed with .50/1 for a long time, scared of higher levels (not knowing about the 300BB rule) and eventually read ToP, HEFAP, and Lee Jones' book. The money started to climb higher faster, and once I had the bankroll for $1/$2, I discovered the joy of casino whoring. I put most of my bankroll into those, cleaning up most of the time, and getting me near to about the $3000 mark.

I got screwed when cashing out of BJ Ballroom though as they sent me a check (in pounds even) instead of putting it back into my Neteller. This, combined with a cashout that happened right before that to buy a video camera, knocked my $3000 bankroll down to $300ish (this was about 6 weeks ago).

Since then, I have again been grinding the .50/1 tables to get back to the right level and between that and discovering some people REALLLY don't know how to play stud, I've turned that $300 back up to $800, putting me at about $3500 between casinos and poker.

[HentaiGaijin]

I'm working to duplicate this kind of challenge. I'm currently up 207 BB at .5/1.

[sprmario]

I had a big setback this weekend. I started off great on Friday night. I put in for a 20% bonus on Paradise of $100 on $500 and logged out w/ $705 w/ $40 of the bonus cleared. I also was up in my 1 table at empire. Sat and sunday were brutal. I had a $100 bonus on empire from using igmpay and I basically burned through my 2 bonuses. Finished up $30 for the weekend w/ $200 worth of bonus so basically was down $170 from poker (85BB)... that sucked. BR is at $686 now.

Part of it was bad luck on a few hands and part of it was me playing like crap. 2 huge hands would have made a big difference. Losing my nut flush (w/ no pairs) to a low straight flush hurt a lot and then losing Jacks full of Queens to Queens full of Jacks was a killer as well.

[prayformojo]

I haven't posted here yet, but so far I am fairly pleased with my results, especially considering that I suck at poker.

I started out at PP .5/1 when they gave me $75.00 in bonuses. I know, I know, the bankroll was too low, but I got lucky and played much weaker than I do now. I worked my way up to a proper bankroll, learning as I went, and put in 13k hands, giving me a 300BB b/r for 1/2 and enough left over along the way to purchase pokertracker several books, and a couple of nights out with my wife to make up for hours spent ignoring her in front of the monitor.

At 1/2, I have been far more successful in 6-max games than full ring, but I forced myself to drudge through the full ring games until I felt I had a grip on the style of game. At 9k hands of full ring, I finally think I can consistently beat, but not crush, the game. With $1200 in my b/r, though, I am moving up to 2/4 as I write, playing two tables at 1/2 and two at 2/4. I recognize that it's only a 150BB jump to a b/r for 3/6, but I expect to sit at 2/4 for a while, at least 10k hands, to see how I do. If nothing else, it might be nice to make a regular withdrawal for a change instead of seeing each winning session as a step toward the next level.

[josh1122]

Update on my progress, too, since everyone else is. I've put in many hours this last month, hence many hands for a very short period of time. Since depositing 50 in mid-July, I've moved from .50/1 to 1/2 and as of Friday 2/4. I built my bankroll up to 600BB in X amount of hands (about 4 weeks of constant play) at .50/1, then I bought PT before starting 1/2, and my stats are as follows. I'm not sure if I'm moving too fast or just running great but I've had the necessary bankroll at every move up and roughly 10k hands also. Maybe its just the actual time period that throws me off. (.50/1 to 2/4 in about a month). And my opponents' play has not seemed to have gotten any better. 2/4 plays the same as .50/1, only with a little more aggression. But I digress. Here are my stats:

Party 1/2

Hands: 9,162
VP$IP: 19.43
Earnings: 422BB
Rate: 4.11BB/100

Party 2/4

Hands: 3,250
VP$IP: 16.95
Earnings: 132BB
Rate: 4.61BB/100

This site and the many books I've gotten my hands on, specifically SSH, have greatly aided me in my rapid climb on the limit ladder. Thanks again, everyone.

[detruncate]

It's been a month of ups and downs. Of fragile confidence. Of achieving milestones. Of shifting expectations, hard lessons, baby steps.

Took a shot at 1/2, but decided it would be better to play .5/1 a while longer. I was a bit disappointed, but time caught up with me a little sooner than I expected. Sneaky one, time.

I learned a hell of a lot in the past few weeks, and can only hope to keep the momentum going. I'm feeling reasonably optimistic. Enjoying the fresh start feeling of a new month to look forward to.

Achieved one of the goals I outlined in my first post. Earned $1000 in a 1 month period... just didn't expect it to be at .5/1. I'll take it anyway I can get it.

It's been great watching so many people travel further down the path toward their own goals... even if it means that a good number of you are far enough ahead to be almost out of sight. It's comforting to follow in the footsteps of more adventurous souls.

[Malificent]

I've been lurking for a while, but seems like a good place to post a bit.

I actually started playing last Nov and lost a chunk of money. Then restarted playing in January and was very successful at $1/$2 and $2/$4 through February. Then March/April hit and it was bad. Bad luck, plus a strong case of macro-tilt and I was done.

Flashback to a month ago. A friend referred me to Pacific Poker. I deposited $20, got a $5 deposit bonus plus the $25 referral bonus and promptly turned it into $200 in a week or so at the .50/1 tables. Emboldened by my success and having read about bonus whoring, I took $100 and deposited at Interpoker and haven't looked back since. My bankroll is up to $1100 (after cashing back my deposits + $100). I'm still chasing initial deposit bonuses at various places (Empire is next) and I'm hoping to grow my roll to a level where I can comfortably play $2/$4.

I also, due to financial reasons, probably need to cash some out every so often, so I'm going to try for a "every $200 earned, $100 goes to the roll, $100 gets cashed out" sort of deal. That way, I can grow my roll but still try and clear out some of this nasty credit card debt. $1200 is probably enough for $2/$4, but since that is where I bombed out last time, I'll probably shoot for $1600 to give myself more cushion.

Its good reading people's stories - encourages me to keep plugging away.

[detruncate]

This month has been about developing the right mental approach. Luckily enough, I think I'm finally starting to take some steps in the right direction. I say 'luckily' because things could easily have taken an unfortunate turn.

The psychological aspects of the game are much more difficult to get a handle on than the technical bits... and I haven't exactly been ripping it up in that area either. It's easy to post a hand and ask people if you should have done something differently, but it doesn't work quite so well when the mistakes are more esoteric. Experience seems to be the only remedy.

The long run is longer than you think. How often have you heard this said? Well, hearing and believing are very different things. I've now played in excess of 75,000 hands, and each time I think I'm coming to terms with the numbers involved something dramatically unexpected happens. At some point, you have to let go of the short term and settle into the glacial pace of the low limit grind. I'm more or less where I need to be, and more importantly, exactly where I should be. Now it's simply a matter of playing the hand I've been dealt.

Spent a little time at 2/4, and was fairly comfortable. Plan to play a lot more this month.

Also made my first cashout. I'm now officially playing with other people's money.

The trees were just growing leaves when I started this project, and those leaves are now dropping off. Crazy.

I often wonder where I'll be when they come back again.

Lots of new faces in the micro forum. It's good to see, even if it sometimes makes me feel like a lifer. Best wishes to all as you pursue your own microquests.

[detruncate]

Time passes. My hand count grows. I'm finally starting to develop a feel for the game. I don't mean the technical aspects... I'm certainly making baby steps in that direction, but most of my progress has to do with coming to terms with what it means to be a poker player. The details too often lost in the onward and upward.

T'was the month of bonus whoring. Putting up reasonable numbers despite playing too few hands. Building a slightly softer cushion into my roll. And the pieces are finally in place for a move to 2/4. Whether I'm able to make it work before I have to move back down or make a withdrawal is a question for another day.

Until then, it's eyes straight ahead and one foot in front of the other.

[JoshuaD]

I've been playing for a month at .5 / 1. Before last night I was up 100BB (We'll get to that in a second). The biggest step I've made in this month is learning aggressive limit play, and not caring about bad beats. I've currently got 5000 hands logged, and I feel I'm making good progress.

Setbacks: the 35BB crash I made last night while drunk. I NEVER let myself play poker drunk, but last night for some reason I did. It cost me 35BBs. Gonna work today until I've played 1700 hands to make it up.

My plans are to move up ASAP. Waiting till I get to 650$, so I can move up to 1/2. The extra fifty because I'm close to 600 now, and I feel there's still alot for me to learn playing .5/1.

[detruncate]

I've just finished my first month at 2/4. The only .5/1 I played was while clearing bonuses. This is an important milestone for me.

My online poker career began with an ill-advised debut at the 2/4 tables... and nearly ended there. Luckily I saved enough to drop down to .5/1, though I was well underfunded and an extended bad run could have finished me off. An important lesson in bankroll management. One I've taken to heart.

Being back at 2/4 means a lot to me. Not so much that I'm unwilling to drop down again if need be, but I'm going to do my best to avoid it.

Badness excepted, this marks the end of my microquest. It's been a rewarding experience in more ways than I can begin to explain. Though I haven't been very involved in the forum for a while, it's never very far from my thoughts. I'll have to make the effort to post more. I may not have all that much to offer, but I have picked up a few things along the way.

Thanks to all who have helped me make these baby steps forward. Whether or not you were aware of it. My accomplishments may be modest, but they're mine... and I'm satisfied with where I am. A few months ago this was a wild notion, after all.

Best of luck to all. Happy pokering.

[sin808]

congrats...hopefully be there one day soon myself.

[droolie]

My goal is to be able to pay for daycare for my two children off poker earnings. This will mean cashing out roughly $1200/ month. I have no idea what limit or game for that matter this will have me playing but that's my goal. Lofty but I think achievable if I get good enough.

I've been playing cards my entire life. My family is a card playing family. Cribbage is my favorite game and I've literally been playing since I learned to add and subtract in first grade. I went to prep school in high school and played tons of card with my friends in the dorms. Spades, hearts and cribbage mostly. I tell you this because I think it has helped my poker game to be a card player in general. All those games help with poker because you begin to learn to read tendencies and tells of you opponents. The, "He knows I know he knows I know this about his game," thinking is second nature. I hope this will help as I go up in limits and see more of the same players all the time.

I started playing online poker early this summer. I had never played hold'em before but fell in love with the no limit game on TV. The idea that you could get rich playing cards was very intriguing. I quickly realized that the way to poker stardom was to start at micro limits online.

I followed Chris Moneymaker to Pokerstars and after playing a few thousand free and .05/.1, played roughly 25,000 hands at the .25/.50 building an original $50 deposit into $400 or so. My wife has hated this project all along and I had to promise her that after the initial $50 deposit I would never deposit money from our account into the poker account again. I had one chance and thankfully I didn't blow it. I think this ultimatum has affected my play and my progress as I am very conservative due to fear of busting out.

I moved to Party Poker in early September and logged 13,000+ hands at 7.24BB/100. I felt like I was not running hot with good cards but running hot with good tables. I was coming up against terrible players so regularly that the cards didn't matter. I only had one downswing of over 100BB during that time and the rest of the way showed steady progress. I earned 980BB at .50/1 and with bonus whoring cashed out a total of $1000 to keep my wife happy and make some home improvements. I don't include any of my bonus whoring in my bankroll as I don't think it counts as won $$. I withdraw all bonuses and evaluate my bankroll progress on its own merits.

I recently moved up to 1/2 and through 2300+ hands I'm up 100BB and am winning at a 4.34BB/100 clip. I want to play 10,000+ hands at this level and if I'm still winning and have at least 400BB's I'll move up to 2/4.

There are three primary reasons why I feel my game has improved...

1) Reading poker books. I started getting good enough to beat .25/5 at pokerstars after reading Lee Jones WLLH. I read a slew of other books but the most important one was without question SSH. I went through a long breakeven phase at .25/5 while learning the concepts outlined in that book adjusting from the "I'm looking for a reason to dump this hand" Lee Jones mentality to the, "the pot is big how can I win it?" Miller philosophy. Without those books I'd still be a VP$IP of over 30% playing .25/50 at Pokerstars.

2)Radek dragging me to this messageboard here after a particularly troubling pokerstars session we were both at. (thx dude) He dropped the brown trout line and I had no idea what it meant. I had been 2+2 a few times thanks to the inviatation on the back cover of SSH but wasn't that into the messageboard. People seemed rude and hostile. When Radek dropped the trout line I figured it was a code so I googled it and 2+2 came up I figured it out. I said "2+2?" in the dialogue and he PM'd me here. I haven't left since. This messageboard has been invaluable to me. Almost everything I am as a poker player right now is thanks to the ideas and posts of the other members here. I still have tons to learn and my game is growing every week. It's very exciting. I really want to thank all of you guys who have challenged me and made me think. Hopefully I can pay it forward to the next generation of 2+2ers.

3) Poker Tracker. This tool is so powerful I can't begin to describe how great it is now that I feel like I'm getting the most out of it. It really feels like cheating! Being able to scout my opponents before moving up to 1/2 helped my confidence immeasurably. I now open tables an hour or so before playing so I have good stats on the tables I'm considering playing. 1/2 is tougher than .50/1 but there are still many bad players there. If you think you're good but are intimidated that the competition is too good for you, dont be. Get a good BR and get in there!

As of today my initial $50 stake has grown into $1800 in earnings through winning and mild whoring. I feel like I'm understanding the game better everyday and can't wait to see where this journey takes me. WPT? Divorce court? Who knows...

[radek2166]

[ QUOTE ]
2)Radek dragging me to this messageboard here after a particularly troubling pokerstars session we were both at.

[/ QUOTE ] /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I still have a few of them. Thanks to the guys and gals here that help me keep my head up.

I am glad that we are both here.

[Lurker4]

I've been lurking at 2+2 for a long time and just recently started posting, and will be posting more in the future. First, a bit about my poker history. I started playing online poker on Prima starting about Jan or Feb 04, and went up around $300 playing mostly micro NL/PL ($.10, $.20, and $.50 blinds) from 2/04 - 5/04. Looking back now I realize I ran really well; I didn't even play that many hands and didn't play NL/PL all that well. Starting in June 04, I started playing Party NL25 (6 max) (just one table - something I wouldn't even think of doing now, /images/graemlins/smile.gif). I pretty much did that over the summer, and also did the Empire500 bonus. Even though I did alright (+$1500 or so including Empire500 bonus and a Party reload bonus), after reading the NL forum for awhile I realized I didn't really know how to play real NL (somewhat deepstacked) all that well. Also, I really didn't enjoy single-tabling NL25 6 max that much. I'd usually play scared and left after I accumulated a decent stack.

So at the end of the summer, wanting to try out limit, I decided to set aside $150 to start my limit quest. My goal was to start at Party $.5/1, and move up the limits, with an eventual goal of 4-tabling $3/6. I wanted all of my limit HE bankroll to come from LHE, so I didn't use the profit I had made from NL from before. I'd take a stab at higher limits when I was comfortable and had at least 200BBs for it, and make a full move up when I have 300BBs+. I've done pretty well this past semester (3-4 months), running crazy good through around 16-17k hands (around 5.5BB/100 at .5/1 8k hands and 1/2 8k hands, obviously unsustainable). Also, I enjoy 4-tabling limit more than playing NL 6 max. At the 16-17k hands mark is when I hit my first 100BB downswing (I know, not a big deal to most but since I had only had two separate 50BB downswings before this and it was while I was taking a stab at $2/4, it hurt). I'm now in the negative (-$80) at $2/4 through 1.8k hands, but from the play I've seen I know I am able to beat this level.

So now my regular game is 4-tabling Party/PokerNow $1/2 (3 tables) and $2/4 (1 table), increasing the number of $2/4 tables when I have more confidence/bankroll at that level. In addition to this I've been bonus whoring Party and skins, and some other sites as well. My overall goal is to make it to 4-tabling $3/6 by around May 05 (I don't think its all that ambitious, but I also don't have the time to play as many hands as most), as well as getting started at $1/2 6 max after I'm comfortable 4-tabling $2/4. I'd also like to try more tables at a low level, i.e. 6 or 8-tabling $.5/1. Lastly I'd like to learn/get experience at other games, such as NLHE ring games (full and short), NLHE MTTs, and maybe PLO.

[buffett]

Wow, what a helpful thread this has been. Excellent!

Operation: Down Payment for a House

Limit: 0.50/1.00, Oct 01, 2004 - Oct 17, 2004
Hands: 5,000
Winnings: +155 BB
3.10 BB/100

Limit: 1/2, Oct 18, 2004 - Jan 25, 2005
Hands: 28,000
Winnings: +151 BB
0.54 BB/100

January 15, 2005 is the date I stopped being a crappy player, based on 2+2 web and book readings.
Limit: 2/4, Jan 26, 2005 - present
Hands: 6,000
Winnings: +289 BB
4.81 BB/100

Big Downswings
One 180BB, one 182BB, and one 100BB.

All stats are full-ring. Does anyone recommend me to move up to 3/6? The main reasons I haven't so far are:
1) not enough experience at 2/4
2) great win rate at 2/4, might not win as much at 3/6
3) 2/4 winrate possibly inflated from good run

Status: So far I'm up $7,600 ($2,400 from play (not all of which is accounted for in the numbers above) and $5,200 from bonii), so I have my work cut out for me to get to my down payment (in the neighborhood of $50K), but I'm getting a little bit better every day. Woo hoo!

By the way, I'm up $7,600, but I only have a $3,000 "bankroll". At the end of each month I withdraw anything over $3k and put it in my ING savings account. (March's withdrawal should be in the neighborhood of $2,600.)

-web