Reload bonus == FishyStars

[CrisBrown]

Hi All,

I may stop playing at Stars for a few weeks. The bonus whores have shown up in droves, and frankly it's not even worth playing right now. Some sample hands:

$33 two-table SNG: 5th hand, three players all-in pre-flop: T6o, J6o, A2o. T6 won it.

$33 two-table SNG: Blinds 25/50, four players all-in pre-flop: AKs, J8o, 65s, K4o. A 6 falls and 65s takes it down.

$33 two-table SNG: Blinds 50/100, two players all-in a raised pot on a Q-8-3 flop. The pre-flop raiser had Q3o. Caller had 83o.

In a ridiculous game like this, the only "correct" strategy is to play premium hands only, but in a Stars two-table SNG that's a recipe for being short-stacked and gone by 10th or 12th place unless the deck runs over you early. It didn't, and I hung around until I was down to 8-9xBB ... pushed in on the first decent stealing hand I had, and was called by a dominating hand from the BB every time: JT vs. KJ, KT vs. AT, K9 vs. AK.

Oh well.

Cris

[Bozeman]

I wish I could play against people like this.

[rusty JEDI]

William is going to love this post.

[Cornbread Maxwell]

Yeah, quit playing poker against these players immediately. I can not think of any style of play that could possibly work against them in the long run.

/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MrFroggyX]

What are you saying! lol This is a joke.. right?
haha..!!! /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I hope you are joking.. i mean.. that are the people we are looking for! I would even be happy to pay the double or tripple tourney fee if i always get that kind off player to play against!

Take care.

[M.B.E.]

Trying to stir up trouble, Jedi?

[PrayingMantis]

Hey Cris,

First, no offence, but I have to agree with the other posters about this. It looks like a very very soft SNG enviroment, one should really like playing against.

Second, I must say I don't see anything resembling this at the 22$ SNGs I play on Stars. Sometimes there are 100% left at 5th level. So maybe there's something going on at the 33$?

BTW, I think I know this Q3o preflop raiser. He played against me once and mini-raised with Q3o on the button after 3 limpers. One of the most bizzare moves I've seen. I think he's playing a different game of poker, though I'm not sure which. Maybe high-low something?


GL,
PrayingMantis

[Stagemusic]

It is my fondest hope that you are kidding with this post.

[Stagemusic]

Cris,

This is said in all seriousness and I am sorry that I am writing it. I just went over a few more posts of yours and I see a very serious flaw in your game. I do not propose that I am a great or even very good player. I am new and learning. However, one thing that I have learned is that you must adjust your game to fit the situation. It is obvious that you have a problem being creative. You seem to be an excellent player when everyone is playing predictable ABC poker but if the game breaks down or if you land at a table consisting of erratic players your play suffers.

You even advised a new player in another thread to leave a game because it was "too fishy". What kind of advice is that? Is it because you lack the patience to wait for and play the premium hands that are necessary to beat games of this type. Or do you fear that your style of play consisting of "run em out with big bets" does not lend itself to playing against the fish who don't know any better other than to call you and expose your overbet with less than best?

I have tried to refrain from attacking you on this forum because I think you have a lot of good ABC strategy to share. However, I think by putting threads such as this on the forum you are doing a great disservice to those who think that they can learn from you and who respect your opinion. This is my opinion simply because I was one of those people.

I am not sure why you choose to share such obviously wrong advice. I can't believe that you really think that you are correct. I can only assume that there are other motives.

Having watched your play in a few 2+2 SNG's, and by putting that together with what you have posted on the forum, I have come to these conclusions. When you have been beaten you have inevitably bet big, been called and shot down. Generally from someone with a bit more imagination and creativity. Someone using what you have called "a fishy play" in more than one post after the fact.

I am sorry, I realize that this comes across as a flame post. It really is not my intention to flame you. It IS my intention to let the newbies know that posts like the above are not the opinion of most of our members. Most of us feel a little obligation to our "Newbie" members. We really should be here in part to nurture them as players. We will certainly take their money at the tables. But in here, we should be their guides and mentors. Advice such as yours is not good for them and certainly not good for poker. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[William]

William is going to love this post.

How could you guess.
I love this bonus periods. I make 3 times my normal earnings plus the 120$ bonus wich is cleared in 2 days.

I too played some SNGs yesterday:
3 x 50$ : 2 first/1 out of the money
3 x 30$ : 1 first/1 second/1 out of the money

Oh well, I guess I was lucky. Cards run over me.... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[William]

Are you plagiating my posts Stage?

[Stagemusic]

I would prefer to consider it agreeing with William. Cut and pasting would have been so much easier to plagarize, although I might have considered doing just that if I had thought about it. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[William]

Anyway, joke aside. This bonus offer and the MANY promotions at Stars this month is really good news.
The site had become really though and suddenly fish is swimming all over the place. There were 12000 players yesterday, still long way to go from Party, but much better in a way. Plenty of fish without the software problems Party has.

Way to go Stars. You have once again proveed that you belong in the leader field.

William

[Stagemusic]

I agree 100%. Yesterday was so much fun. Tables were filling quickly and some amazing play was happening. There was a record 900+ players in the 200 + 15 tourney (I really wanted to play but the wife had committed us to a dinner party /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) Oh well, the food was good. I almost doubled my bankroll just playing a number of 10 and 20 SNG's and some HU. Was a great time. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I've said it before and I'll say it again -

bonus whoring is for those who can't win by just playing good poker alone. There ARE some bonuses that SHOULD be taken. I did reload some cash on stars just for the bonus. But stars clears the bonuses pretty fast. I STILL have $149 on UB that will probably never clear. Played 3-6 H/L stud there for three hours and maybe cleared $8 of it.

Consider switching to ring games or one table SNGs while all the morons are going for their bonuses. In the one table SNGs, I just love it when the morons go all-in early and eliminate each other. The other day it was only level II with five players left, and by level 4 it was down to three.

al

[CrisBrown]

Hi Al,

I agree, in a one-table SNG I love this kind of opponent. It becomes very easy to play: fold everything but premium hands until it's nearer the bubble, then play aggressively to move up..

In a two-table SNG, that won't work, because there are too many to wait out, and by then you're down to such a short stack that you're going to have to be all-in, called, and covered 3 or 4 times to get back into the hunt, and the odds of surviving that (even if you're ahead each time) are poor.

I may also stop posting here for a few weeks, as apparently anything I say is now bait for the idiots who posted below. I'll talk to you in other forums, Al.

Cris

[William]

Of course, everybody things you're nuts, but we are the idiots /images/graemlins/grin.gif

And as far as I can see, you have been flamed at the other forums as well. The general opinion seems to be you know nothing, but can't stop talking(or writing in this case)

LOL, you're a joke /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[TheGrifter]

Cris,

Normally I like your comments/advice but the fact that you called people idiots for disagreeing with you here compels me to comment.

[ QUOTE ]

In a two-table SNG, that won't work, because there are too many to wait out, and by then you're down to such a short stack that you're going to have to be all-in, called, and covered 3 or 4 times to get back into the hunt, and the odds of surviving that (even if you're ahead each time) are poor.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is just wrong. These games are beatable and in fact a strong player should dominate in them. In this case it becomes all about playing the player and not your cards. For instance, if a player is continually pushing weak aces (which I think is probably the most common mistake that these types make) then you punish them when you pick up AQ or even A10, you likely have the best hand. If you relax your starting hand requirements slightly and take advantage of the over-aggresiveness of your opponents then you'll find yourself riding a big stack all the way to 1st place pretty often.

It sounds like people are playing in a 30+3 as though it is a 5+.50. A different strategy is required to win but they are certainly beatable. Good NL poker requires adaptation above all else.


[ QUOTE ]

I may also stop posting here for a few weeks, as apparently anything I say is now bait for the idiots who posted below. I'll talk to you in other forums, Al.


[/ QUOTE ]

This bothers me. If some peoples replies concerned you then you should have replied to that person specifically not called everyone who replied to your post an idiot. We are allowed to disagree you know. I know you've been frustrated lately so I won't get on you too much for it, but come on, comments like that add nothing to the forum and just make you look immature.

[M.B.E.]

StageMusic -- this post is really inappropriate and I think you owe Cris an apology. If you disagree with advice that she has posted, respond in the thread containing the advice. Nobody has asked you to watch her play online and criticize her game in general.

With no evidence, you accused Cris of posting advice she knows to be wrong. In my view, such baseless attacks on a person's integrity have no place in this forum.

[Stagemusic]

[ QUOTE ]
I may also stop posting here for a few weeks, as apparently anything I say is now bait for the idiots who posted below. I'll talk to you in other forums, Al.


[/ QUOTE ]

Pot this is Kettle...Kettle meet Pot. I believe that I was one of those who supported you in your flame war with William. Now I am an idiot because I dare disagree with the Great Cris? BS!!!

[William]

[ QUOTE ]
I may also stop posting here for a few weeks, as apparently anything I say is now bait for the idiots who posted below. I'll talk to you in other forums, Al

[/ QUOTE ]


This shows as well, that you are only interested in making as many posts as possible, no matter where. As I've said in the past, the type that just can't shut up 5 minutes /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[X-Calibre]

poker is a game about people played with chips and cards.

If the people change then so must your game.

If you blind out waiting on the top 10 then don't wait for premium hands. Your variance should go way up but so should your profits.

That being said, it is hard to outplay your opponent when you preflop raise to 1/8 their stack get called and get busted on the flop Q83 by Q3 off when you had KK /images/graemlins/frown.gif (i think that guy must play on party too)

I got busted out of three straight SNG with KK (one was heads up though). I think i prob make more chips with kj then kk.

[Stagemusic]

[ QUOTE ]
StageMusic -- this post is really inappropriate and I think you owe Cris an apology. If you disagree with advice that she has posted, respond in the thread containing the advice. Nobody has asked you to watch her play online and criticize her game in general.

With no evidence, you accused Cris of posting advice she knows to be wrong. In my view, such baseless attacks on a person's integrity have no place in this forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I stand by what I said however and will not apologize. Obviously I did not set out to "watch her play online and criticize her game in general" I was merely commenting on what I had noticed on the 2+2 games that were held and would not have mentioned my opinion if it hadn't of been for the advice given to a newbie on this forum.

Do you disagree that the advice given was incorrect? If so, I will apologize from the highest soapbox in the land.

Do you disagree that advising a player to leave a game because it is "too fishy" is wrong?

Do you disagree that many of her posts have contained the words "bad beat" "overplayed" "unbelievable" "suckout" or words to that affect when describing a loss. Or words appear like "I knew" "the only thing" or some such are there to describe hands won?

Also, where in my entire post do you find where I accused her of knowingly giving incorrect advice? I agree that it would be unseemly to provide such a statement without proof and have made no such statement.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

we can always insult each other's mommas!

al

[La Brujita]

I think solid poker gets the money in the long run in both one and two table tourneys. I think clearly one will have better results playing solid poker against bad players rather than good players.

A tight aggressive style in a two table tourney will not get you short stacked and low on chips all the time.

Also, in most of these tourneys one double up (which you can often do with at least a 70/30 advantage).

I am going to gently step aside from any of the flaming posts.

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you disagree that the advice given was incorrect? If so, I will apologize from the highest soapbox in the land.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you look at my posts from the last few months you will see that I frequently disagree with Cris's advice, but I have always been able to explain why I disagree without attacking her character.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, where in my entire post do you find where I accused her of knowingly giving incorrect advice? I agree that it would be unseemly to provide such a statement without proof and have made no such statement.

[/ QUOTE ]
Stagemusic, you said: "I can't believe that you really think that you are correct. I can only assume that there are other motives."

Those are the two sentences for which I think you owe Cris an apology.

[Stagemusic]

I can honestly see where you think that and perhaps that was worded badly. If so, I do apologize for the statement as it was written, not intended.

I am generally easy to get along with and will go out of my way to not flame someone even though I might strongly disagree with what they are saying. However, we all reach a point where keeping silent is a greater negative than responding. This post was that point for me. For that, I will not apologize. However, I did not intend to infer that Cris was anything other than an honorable person. I was mostly thinking of her keeping her name in play not for any other ulterior motive. Hope that helps explain.

[NotMitch]

Cris,

Having just started playing at Party again I can feel the pain. I think you are confusing variance with profitability. With so much new dead money in these tourneys I'm sure it a +EV situatiion for you. However you are going to see some crazy bad beats and a lot of variance due to this wild play. Hope the deck heats up, becaause when it does look for a real hot streak.

NM

[dwjoe]

[ QUOTE ]
In a ridiculous game like this, the only "correct" strategy is to play premium hands only, but in a Stars two-table SNG that's a recipe for being short-stacked and gone by 10th or 12th place unless the deck runs over you early

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm just a newb, but it seems to me that correct NL strategy vs. fish is to limp in with more hands early in the tournament when the blinds are cheap, and hope to catch a big piece of the flop. Suited connectors, suited aces, small pairs, are all fine. Then, when the flop hooks you up, punish them. No need to bet big preflop unless you're heads up or think you can steal. Calling an all-in postflop from the strongest of 5 fishy players with just TPTK is a good way to bust out.

[triplc]

Hi Cris,

I think that your strategy of playing premium hands is the right one, but then I believe that to be the right strategy early anyway. The thing is...you only need one hand for a fish or maniac to double you up early and you are in pretty good shape to wait for another premium hand. Sometimes they just don't come. Sometimes the fisheys catch a whale. And yes, sometimes they call your JT with KT when you are shortstacked and waiting for the big hand.

But just as many times those same fish will call your JT with T5 or J2 and you will double up when they should have folded up and forked over their blind. And that's why they are so nice to play with...and so frustrating at the same time.

CCC

[NotMitch]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just a newb, but it seems to me that correct NL strategy vs. fish is to limp in with more hands early in the tournament when the blinds are cheap, and hope to catch a big piece of the flop. Suited connectors, suited aces, small pairs, are all fine. Then, when the flop hooks you up, punish them. No need to bet big preflop unless you're heads up or think you can steal. Calling an all-in postflop from the strongest of 5 fishy players with just TPTK is a good way to bust out.

[/ QUOTE ]


Depends on a lot of things, mostly stack size and position. At party with a small stack to start I play super tight because limping will bleed you dry quickly. At stars in LP or on the button I will play those types of hands if I'm pretty sure that, nobody is going raise behind me, I can get paid off if I hit and I'm playing well enough to get away when I hit a medicore hand. I also like open raising the medium sutied connectors first in just to change things up a bit.

[Stagemusic]

Just an FYI but Cris and I have exchanged PM's and as far as I am concerned the matter is dropped. I do want to say that the equality and fairness of the people on this board is to be commended. Thank you.