The ultimate bluff inducer?

[Josh W]

I'll be honest...there are some things that I've learned about poker that I keep to myself...certain tells, or (very) minor adjustments in common strategies. Not saying that this benefits me, I just like to feel special.

And maybe this is one of those ideas I oughta keep to myself. Note that I've never done this, but have started to think about it somewhat...

First, what gave me the idea...

I was playing 80-160 a few days ago. MP openraised, and he's a little loose aggressive. I threebet on the button with AKo, no clubs.

Flop comes 753, all clubs. MP checks, I bet, and he checkraises. For a bunch of (irrelevant) reasons, I put him on two overcards with either the Ac or Kc. But I didn't think he had a pair. We can either question my reasoning extensively, or we can say "alright, he had a read, let's get to the bowels of this post". I vote for the second.

So, the turn pairs the 5, board 7c 5c 3c; 5ph (purple horseshoes, but of course). He bets, I call. River brings another small non-club...it didn't re-pair the board...may have been a 4 or a 6, tho.

He bet, I call, he says "nice call, ace high", I table my hand immediately, and he flashes AJ (I think) before mucking, with the Ace of clubs.

Maybe you want me to threebet the flop when i pick up a read. maybe you want me to raise the turn. Whatever...maybe I shoulda.

But here's the thing....let's say my opponent is a loose cannon. Let's say he tilts easily.

Next time, I think before I call the river, I should table my cards face up and raise.

Whaddya think?

Now, I'll go over the obvious. If he reraises, I'm in a bit of a predicament. But that's what I want. Against some opponents, you may be able to fold to the reraise. But against many (all?) who you'd try this against, you'd call.

The benefit is +2 big bets. The downside is -2 big bets. If you are gonna make the right read frequently, it seems that the benefit is a lot of steam.

But when you table your cards, and raise him, there's gotta be a little somethin' somethin' in every card player holding AJ that just wants to reraise. Heck, I've just visually announced "I'm weak". I'm INVITING a bluff.

Or, is it 6:10 a.m., I have sooo much non-poker on my mind, and so desperately needing sleep that I should be ashamed of myself?

I'm just thinking that against that special opponent, this could be a gold mine....

Josh

[J_V]

I'd say 1/10 players would reraise or less. Suprise and embarassment would stop almost all players from trying the play. I think it's a horrific play.

In my experience, when a hand gets exposed of any value it's showdown.

[SA125]

"Now, I'll go over the obvious. If he reraises, I'm in a bit of a predicament. But that's what I want. Against some opponents, you may be able to fold to the reraise."

It's a great idea if you're almost certain you got him. For only 1 extra bet and at worse a 50/50 prop, you're a probable winner and add "ballsy" to your image. But what predicament?

Could you really put your tail between your legs and fold and scamper in front of the rest of the table after that kind of bravado?

There aren't enough chips in a stack to make me do that. I think you need some sleep on that part.

[elysium]

hi josh
since you have a value hand, go for the call of your river raise. your river raise is being made not to get the fold. you are raising the river for value to get the call. showing your opponent this strong value hand before giving him an opportunity to call will not inspire him to do likewise in some later hand. so you don't really have any true reciprocity value here josh. raise, only try and keep your cards face down. do not even touch them. do a 'no touch raise' on the river to increase your hand's ev.

[gaylord focker]

I disagree Elysium, a lot. You can't raise the river here with your cards down for value. You three bet before flop, at worst you are supposed to have AQ, which he can't beat. Granted, you have a read, and probably the best hand, but thats why you call the hand down, to let him continue betting a weaker hand into you. You're either way ahead, or way behind. I think you played it perfectly, three betting the flop would have been a mistake, and I dont think you can raise the river, with your cards face up or face down.

[elysium]

hi gat
i'm speaking about after the fact. no, of course he shouldn't raise on the river. but if he's going to raise anyway, it is still a value raise against this particular opponent compared to whatever type of play it is when he raises face up. there is some value, after the raise, in keeping his cards remaining face down onto the table rather than raising and then before his opponent has a chance to act; whether that action is call, fold or raise; to, before his opponent acts, quickly like that, turning his cards face up and saying, "see". i'm referring only to that action when i instruct to keep the cards face down. my point: if he keeps his cards face down, his opponent won't likely be able to make a decision as though his cards were face up. what's the difference? well, his opponent may take some action that he otherwise wouldn't take if he knew precisely what those cards were. he is more likely, therefore, to be the recipient of a raise by this opponent if he leaves his cards face down. his opponent has him on a weaker hand IMO. we could go on and on about the various reasons to keep hole cards face down.

turning them face up so that your opponent will get in a good raise....the very idea. if anyone out there wants to play his hole cards face up against me, i will award bonus dollars to show how sporting i am.

[gaylord focker]

[mikelow]

get some sleep, and keep inducing bluffs! I think it's better to catch bluffs than bluff yourself.

[Josh W]

I guess I've thought about this idea a different way after a few zzzz's....

If you are very confident that you have the best hand on the river, heads up (say, over 66.7% confident), then you should raise. Simple math.

Now, as Gaylord Focker points out, Puff the Magic Dragon isn't just about some boy's dragon.

He also points out that, since I threebet preflop, raising the river has very little value, since a worse hand can't call.

Okay, let's take what we know...

I PROBABLY have the best hand. (over 2/3 chance).
I'm last to act.
If I raise, no worse hand will CALL, and it's unlikely that a better hand (even exists!) will fold.

So, if I turn my cards face up and raise, the dude with AJ has a decision to make:

Fold, and say "yer right, you read me like a book, I've been had (a cliche' I never understood)".

Call, which would be utterly retarded, since he KNOWS what I have...he should raise a better hand or fold (or bluff) a worse hand.

Raise, to get me off a better hand.

I mean, I guess what I'm saying is if I'm that confident in my read, it seems silly to call on the river with the best hand. Raising will almost always yield the same result, but may induce another bluff raise.

The downside, other than the blatant display of arrogance, seems minimal....I'll try this play sometime and let you all know how it goes...

Josh

[shemp]

When he 3-bets he's fallen into your trap, so you should 4-bet. Just think of the size and density of the erection this would give you.

Or maybe you've seen Rounders too many times, and this is like what KGB almost did to Worm when Mike ditched his girlfried (that bitch).

See, when you raise you need 2/3. But when you table your hand you need a different price, because now there's a chance that a hand that would have re-raised won't, a hand that would have called won't, and now any hand that beats you, some of which wouldn't have reraised, will re-raise 100%.

Take another nap.

[gaylord focker]

Hey Josh,

I think you're right, you would need to be fairly certain you were up agaist a worse hand, because you might lose as many as three bets on the river with no pair. But if you were sure, and were up agaist the kind of player who might be bold/crazy enough to try to raise you with a lesser hand, then sure, I say give it a shot. Maybe you should try it on that dude they call "mother sucker" at the Hustler. He seems like a reasonable prospect.

[Vehn]

[ QUOTE ]
When he 3-bets he's fallen into your trap, so you should 4-bet. Just think of the size and density of the erection this would give you.

Or maybe you've seen Rounders too many times

[/ QUOTE ]

You, sir, win at the internet.

[shemp]

I don't know what has come over me. I've suddenly donned a purple cape and tin-foil hat and becomed the masked internet flamer. I'm the one who needs a nap. I hope Josh's play works to perfection. If he pulls it off twice, he'll be my hero.

[SA125]

"Just think of the size and density of the erection this would give you."

Density? Dude.

[obi---one]

I will three bet you with pocket deuce and put you on tilt, beotch!!
ANd, don't you have something more constructive to do at 6:00 AM!!!

[latz]

Sounds fun- I like it. Closest i've seen to this was when guy in bb, not seeing utg limper flashed his 1010 to the table after (he thought) it was folded around. Hand went on for some reason. Guy utg was know loose agg. Flop came with A and a Q bb bet out utg raised, bb 3 bet - with his 10's- utg capped then bet the turn and riv and showed 66.
bb took it down.

[SA125]

That's a great story. 3 betting raiser who has seen your cards. Large nads.