A smooth call, a messy flop.

[Nate tha' Great]

Party 10-20, 6-max.

I'm dealt K /images/graemlins/club.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif in the BB.

Button, a loose aggressive player who loves to steal, open-raises. SB folds and I smooth call.

Flop is 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif 9 /images/graemlins/club.gif 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif. I check, intending to check-raise. He checks.

Turn is 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I bet, he raises, I 3-bet, he caps.

River is 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif. I bet out.

Results later. How'd I play?

[Manzanita]

Nate,

The key question is how well does your loose-aggressive opponent play.

If he plays well then the fact that he just checked the flop would tell me that he must have liked it a lot. In this situation I usually wouldn't 3-bet the turn, and definitely wouldn't lead out with a bet on the river after he caps the turn.

If your opponent frequently overplays his hand then your turn play makes more sense. But I still probably wouldn't bet the river as he is sure to do it for you.

-- Manzanita

[Kevin J]

If this is what you gotta do (call a cap on the turn, only to lead out on the river), with the nth nuts, in order to beat these games, then remind me never to get in one.

[Mikey]

You have to 3-bet here for the times you have it and for the times you don't have it.

Reraise here because it is a strong deterent against future steals.

Plus.......reraising is fun.

Plus you have the best hand.

Plus you get more money in the pot.

Plus chances are you are going to win.

Plus, he might try to make a move on you where you can reraise and get more money in the pot.

Plus, he'll be tied into the hand, forced to bluff or call you down.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]

You have to 3-bet here for the times you have it and for the times you don't have it.

Reraise here because it is a strong deterent against future steals.

Plus.......reraising is fun.

Plus you have the best hand.

Plus you get more money in the pot.

Plus chances are you are going to win.

Plus, he might try to make a move on you where you can reraise and get more money in the pot.

Plus, he'll be tied into the hand, forced to bluff or call you down.



[/ QUOTE ]

My approach lately has been to 3-bet very aggressively against steal raises coming from the SB, but to play more passively before the flop against steals from the Button and CO. The trouble, as I see it, with 3-betting a lot to Button steals is that you're sometimes faced with a tough decision as to whether or not to bet out on the flop if it misses you ... my preferred play to deter Button/CO steals is to call a fair bit, but check-raise aggressively when I've flopped something. Smooth calling with big hands helps to set those plays up.

So my blind defense strategy is internally consistent ... I just don't know whether it's correct. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[SA125]

Re-raise and come out firing on the flop. He'll think you're bluffing, because that's what he does and thinks it's how you think.

[DanZ]

This is no good. Why woudl a "loves to steal" player check behind on this flop? Well, he either has a safe mediocre hand (almost impossible on this board, but Q high flush micht qualify), the nuts or 2nd nuts, or nothing. When he goes to war, you can probably start ruling out nothing, and at bet #2 and especially #4, you can start to rule out mediocre safe hand, unless he really is full of himself and thinks you can't play at all.

What this means is there's little chance he's going to check the river, and you sure don't want to be raised on the river.

Dan Z.

[DanZ]

I thiought the 4th club was on the turn. I still think you overplayed the hand, but now I don't think you need to 3 bet on the turn. in fact, a check-raise may be order rather than a bet, imho, or perhaps even a check and call. I can just about promise he doesn't have top pair, jacks or queens, so I don't see much value to 3 betting.

Dan Z.

[Gabe]

On the river, will you fold if he raises? Do you think the Qxc’s and lower suited clubs and 78’s he’d try to steal with, out number the sets and Axc’s he could have? From the action so far, unless there’s something I’m missing, I would think the hands that beat you out number the hands that don’t.

Wait a minute.“a loose aggressive player who loves to steal.” I guess it’s a good bet if he’d raise with any two suited cards, if he’ll pay you off. Of course, if you pay him off ….

I don’t know the Party 10-20, 6-max games, but in a middle limit live game, I’d be suspicious enough of the flop check to not 3-bet the turn.

[Nate tha' Great]

He turned over Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif and my hand was good.

I wasn't particularly happy with my play of the hand; a good example of letting the cards play me. Clearly, I underestimated the significance of his checking the flop, then raising me on the turn, and there's a whole mess of hands that I was behind.

As for betting out on the river ... I'm too lazy to subject this one to a thorough Bayesian analysis, but I suspect the number of hands that I was ahead of was pretty even with the number of hands that I was behind. Thing is, though, I'm going to get raised by any A /images/graemlins/club.gif or boat, paying two bets when I'm behind (my opponent is wild enough that I think I would have needed to call him down), whereas I suspect that he'd still bet with most of his other holdings if checked to (trip 9's might be one exception), so I wouldn't *miss* any bets with a check-call approach.

Thanks for the comments, guys.

[Gabe]

"whereas I suspect that he'd still bet with most of his other holdings if checked to (trip 9's might be one exception), "

You think he would slowplay a pair of nines on the flop?

[Coilean]

[ QUOTE ]
So my blind defense strategy is internally consistent ... I just don't know whether it's correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably okay until you have to turn over those big pairs a couple of times, after which your reraises from the blinds become a big target for any observant thinking opponents. Perhaps not a major concern in the continual player flux that is online poker (unless you run into some guys with hand history logs and player tracking software), but potentially a very large leak in B&M poker against regular opponents.

[mikelow]