check-raise semi bluff for info

[scotnt73]

party 1/2 6 max

lately ive been experimenting with check raising from out of position with 2nd pair on the flop shorthanded with 3-4 people in the pot(i do this only like once or twice a session). This seems to knock out just about everyone. sometimes they all fold. sometimes it gets me heads up with someone who is now scared of me(once or twice ive checked the turn when another over card hits and had them check as well). occasionally ill get reraised and know im beat and fold. it seems like a pretty cheap way to get some really solid info shorthanded? am i completely wrong on this move or have i just stumbled onto something all advanced players already know. Thanks for all replies.

[Inthacup]

This is not a standard play, but one I use occasionally. I do have trouble with this:

occasionally ill get reraised and know im beat and fold.

Surely you don't check-raise and fold to a 3-bet?




Cup

[scotnt73]

maybe im wrong but my thinking was this:say im in the big blind with K10o and the flop come AK2 rainbow with 4 seeing the flop. in shorthanded someone will almost always bet out on the flop. i check my 2nd pair, someone bets and i check-raise. my thinking is noone but someone with A or better will 3 bet me and its a cheaper round than just calling it down and hoping noone has the ace. is my thinking WAY OFF? thanks.

[Schneids]

Most of the time you will still have 5 outs to a better hand than what they are three betting with. You are almost always being laid the odds to see the turn for one more SB.

[sweetjazz]

As mentioned before, you should usually call the 3-bet because you are typically getting the odds to spike one of your probable 5 outs on the turn.

But this play only works well if you know the ranges of the other players' bets pretty well. In your hand, you definitely want to make sure that there aren't people who would 3 bet with a broadway draw or any king. You also want to know whether you can bet your hand aggressively or not if your check raise is called. You'll be annoyed if you end up checking behind on the turn and river to find that you were actually ahead but the free cards completed a draw or made two pair for your opponent. On the other hand, you'd feel foolish pushing your KTo against a player who is calling down all the way with Ax.

Of course, there's always some uncertainty, but it seems like the play you suggested can be a profitable one if the information that you get is useful and reliable. It's optimal when you get a good idea of where you stand no matter what your opponent does. In your example, you get a good idea if you're raised, but you might still be in the dark if you're called. Another thing to keep in mind is that some opponents will play very straightforward, but might see you check raise a hand and end up folding before the river, and that might encourage them to become tricky. So the play you suggested should not be used multiple times against the same opponents, unless you are pretty sure that they are complete dolts. But you can't always guarantee that you'll get a dolt like me at your table. /images/graemlins/grin.gif