Advantage of Betting the Pot?

[Haupt_234]

Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but I am unaware of this strategy. I have started watching many pros play on UB at night in the Nl 25/50 games. After a preflop raise, almost everyone will immediately bet the pot on the flop.

I understand this will kill almost all draws and such, but what is the true advantage of this play? Is it the draw-kill? The consistent sized bets? Or perhaps just something to use in very high stakes?

Any ideas are much appreciated...

[tewall]

Betting achieves a couple of purposes. Among them is to get more money in the pot when you are ahead. You want people to pay to beat you. Failing that, you want your enemies to leave. The more people that leave, the less obstacles between you and the pot. After a flop bet, a follow up bet on the turn may take down the pot. A large bet accomplishes these purposes better than a smaller one.

If a pot-sized bet works well, why not a larger bet? For that matter, why not just go all-in? Well, in smaller stakes games where the players play very poorly, going all-in may well be the optimal play, as poor calls are a trademark of such games. In higher stakes games, such a play would be a poor play because these too large bets would only get called if beaten.

So you want the bet to be large enough to accomplish your purposes, but not so large that it works against you.

Notice the multiplying effect of the bets as the play continues. A pot bet on the turn, assuming one caller, will be 3 times the flop bet, and on the river 9 times. So someone calling the flop bet must be aware that the total cost may be very high, so a pot-sized bet has a larger impact than might first appear.

You mentioned the draw-killing aspect of the bet, and that is indeed important, and well as betting consistantly not to give the hand away. Some authors recommend half-pot sized bets when the board is non-threatening, such as K92 rainbow.

Pot-sized betting is definately not something just for large-stake games, and if anything, bets in the smaller stakes games should be larger because of the propensity of the players to call.

[bunky9590]

My standard bet is to bet the pot, although I occasionally over bet the pot.

The only time I usually bet less is on the river to get some value for my hand if I want a call.

[jomatty]

while a pot sized bet is fairly standard there are lots of times where a bet of less or more is appropriate. my standard though is actually a little less than the pot. ultimate bet makes it very easy to bet the pot by the options they give you as far as betting is concerned. that may play a small part. ciaffones book on pot limit play talks a fair amount about betting and is in my opinion a must read for people serious about learning pot limit play.
gl
matty

[spacemonkey]

On the flop, I usually bet the pot, to the nearest dollar, or sometimes a standard amount a bit less than the pot, like on a 1/2 NL game, $8 (pot is usually $10 then), which is large enough for most purposes. I usually don't want to get called, with a hand like top pair, draw etc. I might underbet the pot on the flop with a strong hand, such as 3 of a kind or a flopped straight or flush which wants callers but is in danger of being outdrawn. Betting a small amount is a good strategy when you have a draw and you are trying to build a pot, though I like to bet draws more strongly. I'd also underbet the pot in a raised pot, eg if I was the raiser with AK on most flops or if I'm betting into the raiser with a good but not great hand. I'd overbet the pot if I have an overpair to the flop like 10 10, JJ, QQ where I don't want overcards staying in. Overbetting the pot when raising on a draw (or against a draw) is another instance.

On the turn I usually underbet the pot, like say 2/3 pot (this is often still a reasonable bet that doesn't give odds to a draw), unless I am sure they are drawing, when I usually bet the pot or more. I think there is a danger in overplaying hands like top pair good kicker and losing a lot of money that way. Also, I will often overbet the pot on the turn in instances where either I or the opponent would have little remaining on the river, and would be getting implied odds, I usually go all in or set them in in those cases. I think the sizes of the stacks relative to the blinds is a factor.

One thing I think is important is that a big bet on the flop commits you to putting more money in with that hand ie the next bet has to be at least twice that or would be seen as weak. I often like to exploit other players who bet their hands too strongly, as it is easier to get more money out of them when you have a strong hand (they make the pot large, giving themselves better pot odds to call when they are beat).

In pot limit games it's all too tempting to bet the max on each round, don't know if this is good or bad /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[tewall]

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn I usually underbet the pot, like say 2/3 pot (this is often still a reasonable bet that doesn't give odds to a draw), unless I am sure they are drawing, when I usually bet the pot or more. I think there is a danger in overplaying hands like top pair good kicker and losing a lot of money that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm having some trouble with this. You are concerned about losing money by overbetting a TPTK hand (which makes sense), and your solution is to make a 2/3 sized bet instead of a pot-sized bet? (this is the part I'm not getting).

If it is +EV to bet less, why not bet even more less? (nice English). Bet half a pot. Or better yet, check.

[spacemonkey]

The reason people want to bet the pot or overbet it on the turn is usually to give the opponent prohibitive odds of outdrawing them. I think a 2/3 or 3/4 pot bet actually suffices in most cases. Eg pot is 10 on flop. I bet 10 get 1 caller, pot is 30 on turn. If he is on a flush draw, say, and I bet 20, he is paying 20 to win 50 (+implied odds: I might pay him off a small amount on river when he hits). Odds are 4-1 against him hitting the flush with one card to come. So to call my bet of 20, he needs more than 9 outs or be sure I'll pay him off at least 30 on the river.

In my experience 2/3 - 3/4 pot size bets are fairly standard.

If I were 99% sure I was ahead and the opponent was drawing, I would bet more. But most of the hands I bet are really not that strong. The idea is your large bets will only be called by a better hand.

[tewall]

I understand and agree with all this, but didn't understand the part about betting 2/3 of the pot in order to avoid not overplaying your TPTK hands. That part doesn't make sense to me.

If you want to avoid overplaying your TPTK hands, and betting 2/3 pot is better than betting the pot, than 1/2 pot would be even better. And checking better yet.