somebody explain this to me

[ThaSaltCracka]

***** Hand History for Game 373587159 *****
200/400 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 2161349) - Wed Feb 04 22:49:36 EST 2004
Table Card Room Table 3608 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 1: SaltCracka (3210)
Seat 4: Ralieghg (2030)
Seat 5: rdtumpa (2450)
Seat 8: HomerLemon (310)
rdtumpa posts small blind (100)
HomerLemon posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to SaltCracka [ 5s, Td ]
SaltCracka folds.
Ralieghg folds.
rdtumpa folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 300
SaltCracka balance 3210, didn't bet (folded)
Ralieghg balance 2030, didn't bet (folded)
rdtumpa balance 2350, lost 100 (folded)
HomerLemon balance 410, bet 200, collected 300, net +100


Okay this is the hand summary, my question is why wouldn't rdtumpa, call the BB or make him go all in???? He had a perfect opportunity to knock him out and it was only 210 more to force him allin. I would probably call with anything here. someone explain this to me.

anyways on the next hand Homer doubles up, then proceeds to get second in the tourney, I thought that was funny because he knocked rdtumpa out later on. I got first BTW /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Okay this is the hand summary, my question is why wouldn't rdtumpa, call the BB or make him go all in????

he is clueless?

[AleoMagus]

Yeah, this kind of this annoys me so much. I played one today where with three left, Player A(t5000ish) is in a 400 BB. I, with (t2000ish) am UTG and fold. SB with (t600ish) pushes all in for about 200 more than the BB (that's right, call 200 more to win 1200ish pot, and eliminate short stack). Player A folds.

If I didn't believe so strongly in the decency of all people I'd suspect collusion. Or maybe it's just that I believe even more strongly in the stupidity of some people.

Regards,
Brad S

[kerssens]

For the same reason that a 24o would call a raise 6x the BB

[ThaSaltCracka]

I would completely agree with you guys, I told Homer when it was heads up that I was glad he was still in because the other guy did not deserve to win anything playing that way.

[Prickly Pete]

This is an interesting point. Clearly, I agree with you here. But, at what point does playing any 2 not make sense. Let's say you are rdtumpa here and have 32o. What size stack does Homer need to make you fold instead of putting him allin?

And does it matter what your stack is (assuming you have Homer covered)?

I don't know have a concrete answer, but I bet Boze and the more mathematical types will.

[Bozeman]

~2x-3x blind (total) depending on other factors.

[ThaSaltCracka]

I would agree with bozeman.
I think if you have atleast 6x or higher of there stack I would call.
just me though

[TheGrifter]

If you REALLY wanted him gone you could have raised 3xBB with your 10 5 and I'm sure the other guys whould have been more than happy to get out of the way. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't feel as strongly as some about taking a chance with a garbage hand to knock someone out, but in this case he was so shortstacked that doubling him up wouldn't have made much of a difference (620 instead of 410) so I would definitely put him all in and take a shot with any two.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting point. Clearly, I agree with you here. But, at what point does playing any 2 not make sense. Let's say you are rdtumpa here and have 32o. What size stack does Homer need to make you fold instead of putting him allin?

And does it matter what your stack is (assuming you have Homer covered)?

I don't know have a concrete answer, but I bet Boze and the more mathematical types will.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have done some simulations which seem to indicate that it is not smart to make -EV plays in this position, even if it could take your opponent out. The effect of you doubling him up more than outweighs the fact that he can't come back if you nail him.

This makes sense to me. If you're the big stack, you can afford to wait for +EV before taking him on.

On the other hand, it does appear to be always correct in that situation to make any and all +EV plays, even with slim margins.

eastbay

[kerssens]

I'd call in the dark

[Prickly Pete]

2x - 3x seems reasonable - I think I typically play it on nearer the 2x.

[Wayne]

[ QUOTE ]

rdtumpa posts small blind (100)
HomerLemon posts big blind (200)
Main Pot: 300
SaltCracka balance 3210, didn't bet (folded)
Ralieghg balance 2030, didn't bet (folded)
rdtumpa balance 2350, lost 100 (folded)
HomerLemon balance 410, bet 200, collected 300, net +100


[/ QUOTE ]

rdtumpa needs to put in another $210 for a chance to win $410. rdtumpa needs to win at least 31% of the time to make this play EV+ for this hand only . 72o will be EV- versus a random hand, but Q4o should be playable.

But what we really want to know, is it EV+ for the tournament to make an EV- (or small EV+) play here? I don't think this can be calculated accurately, but my gut feeling is that I want a hand that should win 50% of the time, say a Jx, T9o, or better.

I think betting with 72o is a clear mistake. Maybe I'm wrong? Knocking out the small stack helps the three survivors, helping me a little mnore. Doubling him up helps him and the other two opponents.