Good play or guaranteed loss?

[Ric]

Pacific .25/.50, very loose/passive table (75% flops seen by the table)

On the button with AQo
5 limp to me, I raise, SB, BB, all call
Flop: 3 T 2
Checked to me, I bet, 4 call
Turn: 9
Checked around
River: 7
Checked to me, I bet, BB calls

Results: <font color="white">BB had A3o and took it.</font>

Should I have bet out here? I tried to buy the pot, but I guess it didn't work too well. I'm also trying to be more aggressive with my play, I think the river bet here shows that. Any comments appreciated.

[Trix]

With that many limpers, I would limp along too, since AQo doesnt play that well multiway, it makes more sense to get in cheap and your chances of taking it down if you miss will also be increased with the lesser pot. Check the river through and hope noone has a pair, cuz they will call with it anyway.

[me454555]

W/5 limpers in the pot, betting doesn't look it will win you the pot on the flop. Its probobly better to check the flop through and hope for a good turn card. As you saw by the caller who showed down A3o, you were only drawing to 3 outs. You find this commenplace when you have overcards, especially an ace.

With 1 or 2 opponnets on the flop, a bet is almost manditory. Once you get up to 4 or 5, its better to just check it though and take the freebe

[thirddan]

check turn and check river, on pacific with so many players there is little chance you are ahead here...btw...why would you ever want to leave pacific, best games ive ever played in /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[artman]

My thoughts exactly Trix. If it had been AQs i'd definitly raise, but AQo i'd limp with it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Ric]

Thanks for the comments everyone. As for Pacific,

They're..... so.... passive... and.... slow.... it's.... maddening.

Also, strangely I did much better on Party than I am now, but I hope that will prove to be wrong soon. I just don't think that the speed of the games on Pacific make it very fun. If I wanted fewer hands per hour, I'd play in my local home game, not online.

[thirddan]

"If I wanted fewer hands per hour, I'd play in my local home game, not online."

Haha...So true, the software blows...

[Gomez22]

If the table's this loose, it's usually a "no fold 'em" situation. I just got done playing one of these tables tonight and, in my opinion, it's much tougher to beat A TABLE FULL OF THESE PLAYERS than just having 1-3 at the table. In that case, I usually play MUCH tighter post-flop. In this case, I think I'd check the river through, as alot of these players will call down with ANY pair, thus costing you 1 BB in most of these situations.

[Gravy (Gravy Smoothie)]

Preflop I raise to try and kil the blinds.

Flop I check behind because I close the action and have a free shot to catch one of six potential outs. I will check/fold the turn unimproved, but if checked around to me again I will bet regardless of the turn card.

[me454555]

The othe advantage of limping w/AQo is that if you hit tptk on the flop, someone else might bet, giving you a chance to raise and thin the field.

[Zetack]

It's a toughie. The problem is you have four people with you on the river. Although you can't figure any of them for any strength you also can't bluff four people. There's eight cards out there that may have hit something. You have to believe that checking is going to cost you the pot. At the same time, after the turn check, it's highly likely any pair is going to call you if you bet.

If you were prepared to bluff the river, you needed bet the turn as well when it was checked to you. This of course gets expensive in a hurry if you lose. When you elected to take the free card on the turn with four people in (and I'm not saying that was a bad idea), I think you need to recognize you made the decision at that point to lose the pot to anybody who had anything at all if the river missed you.

Some folks would recommend limping pre-flop. I'm torn on that, but it does gives you a much better bluffing position. If you hit, can play that for value, but you can bluff almost anything that hits with a pre-flop limp. It's hard to represent A-10 with a pre-flop raise, then of course, by checking the 10 high on the turn when its checked to you, you lose any ability you have to represent that.

So I think you have to make a decision when the table is representing this much weakness, bet at it the whole way, or leave it alone on the river.

--Zetack

[StellarWind]

Ric,

Eight low-limit players saw this flop. Forget completely about bluffing in any form as it will never work. You need the best hand, period.

You were right to raise preflop. Your odds of winning this pot are way better than 7-1, so make the value bet and charge them to see the flop.

Besides you are not giving your hand away. Everyone gets to guess whether you have an overpair or just high cards and no one knows whether you are looking for a king or a queen. In a small field you could win a Kxx flop just by betting when it is your turn.

The raise also bought you a nice free card on the flop. Enjoy. Betting didn't achieve anything--you didn't fold three random hands, you folded the three worst hands, the ones that were unlikely to threaten you.

Once you correctly took the free card on the turn, you should check the river too. No one believes that 7 made your turn check into a big hand. Anyone who can beat ace-high is going to call. If you ever do this and everyone folds, it was because your hand was good.

[Joe Tall]

With so many opponents you probably check it through. No better hands will fold at this point.

Welcome tot he forum,
Joe Tall