Are limit SNGs beatable?

[balkii]

I am a long-term winning smallstakes limit ring game player, and have started to play the 30/3 limit hold'em SNGs at party. But starting with 800 chips and the blinds doubling every 10 hands it seems like you have to be running pretty good to win. I mean if you dont hit a big hand and get paid off in your first 40 or so hands you basically lose.

I am a tight player and even tighter in tournaments. I always thought the correct strategy in tournaments is to only play hands that will win the pot a high % of the time. But if I sit around and wait for group 2 or even group 3 hands that doesnt seem to work. Is there some strategy I am missing out on here?

Thanks

[DrPhysic]

balkii,

amateur opinion, only recently winning much, so take with a grain of salt:

The blind structurd vs number of chips in party sng's & tourns forces you to either bet heavily when you have a hand in NL and/or play considerably looser in either NL or L. I personally think you would like the chip/blind structure a lot better at stars. I do, even tho IMO there are somewhat better players on stars than party or true.

Doc

[HUSKER'66]

At Party where you start with only 800T and having the blinds go up every 10 hands, IMO you obviously have to be more aggressive and broaden your range of starting hands. You can not sit back and play only groups 1-3 and hope to win. On single table SnG's with this starting chip/betting structure position is power. Attack the blinds if you are in LP and there have been no callers in front by limping/raising with group four hands. If there are previous callers play up to group five especially if you are able to limp in cheaply. If the flop hits your hand, proceed, otherwise it's an easy fold.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Tho these will be beatable, it will take MUCH longer, and many more trials, to show a profit, because of the factors you discussed. This is why almost all of us concentrate on no limit SNGs. They are much more easily beat for good no limit players.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I agree Stars are easier to beat because of the much better structures.

al

[Six_of_One]

I've only played 60 limit SNG's, so take this advice for what it's worth.

I think the limit SNG's are definitely beatable. The way I do it is basically play really tight the first few levels, then gradually get more and more aggressive as the blinds get larger. Pretty basic, I know, but it seems to be working so far. Remember, you don't need group 2 hands to win short-handed. You just need cards that are better than average for that many opponents. Be aggressive, don't let yourself get blinded off. You'd be surprised how often people fold their blinds in these tournaments down near the end, especially on the bubble.

I can't comment on how they compare to the NL SNG's, because I haven't played any of those.

[TheGrifter]

Al,

Just a question, maybe I'm looking at this in the wrong way. Assuming that in the long run the cards will run the same for everyone overall wouldn't the rapidly increasing blind structure in some ways benefit the experienced player who can rapidly adjust to table conditions?

In other words, if a player is constantly making positive EV decisions given the increasing blinds and shrinking number of players does it matter what the structure is?

Just wondering because you said that NL SnG's were more easily beat by a good player. But wouldn't a good limit player be at just as great an advantage here?

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Sure, you can make adjustments that will help your chances. But the bottom line is that you will still need to get dealt cards most of the time in limit tourneys. In no limit the leverage you can apply lets the good player win at a much faster rate, because the cards don't matter nearly as much, tho it still helps to get dealt lots of great hands /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

al

[Al_Capone_Junior]

The general advice you are offering here for limit tourneys is fine with me.

al

[DarkKnight]

These games are beatable especially because some of the players are sooooo baaaaaad.

I like to play as follows...

Early look to play a hand that can make a bundle (eg suited connectors vs several limpers). If nothing comes your way then when its down to 5 or 6 players you need to get aggressive anytime its folded to you.

After level 4 or so i almost never limp. I try to steal blinds and build my stack little by little. When you're the chip leader this becomes even easier.

I find the 30+3 Limit game is a more reliable (ie lower varience) way of paying the bills. While I make about the same per hour as I'd make playing 3/6 I have fewer losing sessions.

DK

[DarkKnight]

Proper limit strategy is to loosen up not tighten up.

Open raise with hands you might not play in a ring game (eg QJo MP) and fold hands vs raisers (or callers) that you might play (eg TPFAP recommends folding AKo vs an EP limp - a bit tighter than i play but you get the idea).

DK