A routine hand that I don't play well

[Nate tha' Great]

These situations come up a lot in 6-max.

Party 10/20. My opponents are typical, loose and aggressive in just the usual amounts. EP (UTG +1) and CO limp and I get a free play on the blind with 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif.

The flop is K /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. Note that I think it's *somewhat* less likely that these players would limp in with a K, since they normally like to raise a lot before the flop. I also think it's likely that someone will make a play at the flop.

What's your play here? Check-raise the flop and fold to a 3-bet or turn raise?

[stripsqueez]

betting out is not likely to be awful

your main desire is to win this pot quickly - if you check and the EP bets and the CO calls its not ideal because they will both likely call your raise - you would rather that the EP checks and the CO bets allowing you to confront the EP with 2 bets to play (if he does then you can get scared) - say the CO raised pre-flop and i had J8s so that i called the raise - now i think checking the flop is auto

the horror is having it checked through so i usually bet out

whether you fold to a flop 3 bet when you check raise or a turn raise when you lead out on the turn, is obviously opponent dependant - generally speaking i am more suspicious of the turn raise than the flop 3 bet - solid players tend to 3 bet the flop with the hand you fear - i think i usually get an aggressive image - in particular an image of throwing chips in with not too much on the flop - i think that induces solid players to 3 bet the flop rather than check raise the turn - loose players have not progressed from the greedy thought that raising the turn is getting more money in the pot

the presence of other draws weighs heavily on my view of these situations - lots of semi-bluffers out there

i dont think there are any clear rules for the scenarios you refer to - ultimately this is why you play the game and where you make a lot of profit - judging what to do under pressure

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[ZeeJustin]

I like to bet out this flop. Against a typical party opponent that is trucky and/or bluffs, I will not fold this hand unless a Q or an A comes off, simply because many players tend to take their shots on paired boards.