A9o on button?

[toddw8]

PokerStars .05/.10, Fairly loose-passive table. No real individual reads.

Hero is Dealt A /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif on the button

UTG limps, MP1 limps, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls

Flop (10sb): 4 /images/graemlins/club.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls

Turn (8bb): 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls

River (11bb): 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, UTG calls

Results later

My two points of concern here are preflop and on the river (but input on any portion of the hand is appreciated). Jones recommends this preflop raise, but I'm curious as to what others think. Also, would checking the river be too weak here, or did all that calling give me enough indication that someone was probably on the flush draw?

[thirddan]

Im not sure i like this preflop play, i probably wouldn't play A9o with limpers already in...and i don't like the raise preflop...UTG most likely has an ace and you could be outkicked by a guy limped limped UTG, but i think i would raise flop also...Turn is fine...River i would check down as it sure looks like MP was drawing and that spade ont he end is ugly

[taxat]

Preflop: I would fold A9o

Flop and turn: Perfect.

River: Tricky, but I would probably bet since you weren't raised on the turn. When UTG calls, I would put him an a Ace, at best AT. Then MP checkraises the both of you telling you your aces are no good. While two pair and a straight are possibile, the fact that he checkraised you both suggests a flush. While you are getting 15:1 (probably 16:1) on your call, I think MP and UTG have you beat more often than that.

[StellarWind]

I would call with A9o but it's close and folding is fine. Do you remember why Jones suggested a raise?

UTG bet the flop but then piped down, so I'm going to be obvious and say he has an ace, but a flush draw is possible. Unless MP1 is a really bad player I'd put him on a flush draw as soon as he check-calls the turn. Neither raise nor fold, what else can he have? But really bad players are abundant so the real answer is you don't know.

If you thought UTG was a good tight player you should check the river because he has a flush or his ace is better than yours and you are wasting money. Not believing that he still might have AQ, AT, or be checkraising A6. Remember you raised preflop so he could be scared of a bigger ace. You could bet the river into UTG but it would backfire sometimes.

As for MP1, I'd want positive evidence of poker impairment before I'd risk betting into him. He's got a flush. Even if he is incompetent he still could have a flush.

Check the river.

[toddw8]

After reading Jones' preflop section again, he gives no specific reason why he recommends the pf raise. He also recommends raising ATo from middle position. Being a novice, I've been trying to play "by the book", but upon looking again, both these plays look kinda fishy (in both senses of the word). At the time, with Jones' suggestion in mind, my justification was that with "only" two limpers ahead of me, there was a good chance I had the best hand, and a good possibility that the blinds would fold to a raise.

BTW, MP1 showed Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif for the flush and UTG mucked A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the rivered two pair.

[Nate tha' Great]

I'd consider a raise here against one limper (or zero limpers!), but won't play this hand against two or more. One problem is that players will sometimes limp in with hands like AT or AJ, especially at these limits. Another problem is that A9o has reverse implied odds and the raise creates better odds for them to draw out on you. I haven't read Jones, though.

I'd check it thru on the river. Frankly, I'm not sure that I'm ahead when I get two calls on the turn. And I'm certainly not sure that I'm ahead when the third flush card falls.

[Brian]

Hi toddw8,

You'll run into some problems playing A9o like AKo. Throw Jones away and pick up Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players by S&M.

-Brian

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, MP1 showed Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif for the flush and UTG mucked A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the rivered two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? UTG didn't pull the trigger? You realize this means he diagnosed the flush.

[Shawsy]

Jones does suggest raising with this on the button, though it is the weakest of the hands that he recommends to raise with in that position. The raise did not have the desired effect of clearing the blinds out pre-flop, but they went away after your raise on the flop anyway.
I like your play on the flop and turn. I think I would have checked on the river though. Somebody had to be on a flush draw. /images/graemlins/frown.gif