Party 5/10 versus 10/20

[Nate tha' Great]

Does anybody have an opinion on the relative strengths of these two games?

I've been collecting pokertracker data for a couple of weeks; it's probably not enough to be making these sort of conclusions, but here goes anyway.

- My BB/hr win rate is higher at $5/$10 by a fair margin, although it's a virtual toss-up in terms of $/hr.

- My variance is substantially higher at $10/$20, enough that I think the difference is signficant even given the small sample. That could be attributable to the blind structure, but also:

- There are substantially more preflop raises at $10/$20 - the average player is at roughly 13% PFR, versus 10.5% for $5/$10.

Any thoughts on where I should focus my energies, assuming that I don't have serious bankroll concerns? My general impression is that the good games are just about as favorable at $10/$20 as at $5/$10, but table selection is a lot more important. My stats also indicate that *my* PFR and VP$IP are somewhat higher at $10/$20, which suggests perhaps that I'm loosening my play too much in response to my opponents ... one still has to pick his spots, even if there are more spots to pick from in s/h.

[stripsqueez]

i've given this some thought as i have 8000 hands of 5/10 and 13000 hands of 10/20 in pokertracker from the last 7 weeks or so since i returned to party/empire

like you i do better at 5/10 in terms of BB's per 100 hands but i do significantly better at 10/20 in $$ terms

take a look at the opponents you have played more than 50 hands against at 10/20 - you would probably conclude like me that you are happy to be in a game with 80+% of them

i dont think the 10/20 game is dramatically more aggressive - i think the difference is simply that there is perhaps half a decent player more present in the usual 10/20 game than the 5/10 game

i would find it very hard to play poker well if i had to grind away against players who were nearly all worse than me all the time - i think it is essential that to remain good at the game and to get better at the game you need to find different and challenging environments to play - thats the main reason why i set myself the goal of playing through the limits of 6 max at party to 15/30 - once i have beaten that game for a bit i vaguely plan to complete my pot limit omaha education

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[ZeeJustin]

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i do better at 5/10 in terms of BB's per 100 hands but i do significantly better at 10/20 in $$ terms

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Same here.

Nate: I would suggest focusing your energy on 10/20 if I were you.

[Ulysses]

I pretty much agree w/ stripsqueez's assessment.

I think the difference in aggression in the 10/20 v. the 5/10 is a little bit more than he does and the swings a little more extreme than he implied, but I agree it's not fundamentally different.

Even if your BB/hr is a little less, the 10/20 is a much more profitable game in $$/hr than the 5/10. I agree w/ strip that the decent player quotient is maybe .5 to 1 per table greater than 5/10. The 10/20 is definitely the game for you to play (based on your posts I am sure you can beat that game easily).

The $15/30 6-max is also very beatable and my earn in that game is a little greater than the $10/20, but there are often two or three superaggro maniacs in those games, so the swings are incredibly high. Definitely beatable, but huge variance - I do consider the game play in those to often be substantially different than the 5/10 and 10/20.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
i set myself the goal of playing through the limits of 6 max at party to 15/30 - once i have beaten that game for a bit i vaguely plan to complete my pot limit omaha education

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I went through the same process (starting at 1/2 and going through 15/30 6-max) at Party with a similar type of "challenge" goal. I don't think you'll find beating the 15/30 a challenge nor terribly interesting. I am 100% sure based on your posts you'll have no trouble beating the game.

So, if you're looking for more interesting challenges, I'd suggest you focus on PLO and NL. I don't think my little "5/10 discipline exercise" will last very long and out of boredom I'm probably going to move my money over to UB and start playing the 100x buyin NL games (as well as going back to playing a lot more NL and PLO live around here).

[PokerPaul]

Hi,

i am currently in the same 'dilemma' as you guys are discussing here. Did well at 5/10 short, am now getting feet wet at 10/20 and early indications are good.

You say moving to 15/30 should be beatable then also, except for the wilder swings.

Do you have a estimate for how many additional good players at table at 15/30 vs. 10/20?

Also, i'd have to say even if 15/30 beatable like others, i would start to play more at a 'scared' money type game

[Ulysses]

I don't know that there are many more good players at the 15/30, but there are far fewer loose-passive-terrible-call-all-the-way guys. There are also far more complete maniacs.

[MrMoMo]

Very Interesting thoughts.

I have started to play on 5/10 6 max tables exclusively for a couple months now. I prefer this as the game is faster, less boring, and most importantly I get to make more decisions per hour. This has been very profitable for me so I hesitate to move up to 10/20. The difference in skill level must be fairly significant going from 5/10 to 10/20 as compared to 10/20 to 15/30. Any thoughts? Playing 5/10 6 max has a very low variance on my bankroll. I'm sure variance will go up if I move up to 10/20 eventhough $/hr may go up slightly as well.

[davidross]

Given the higher variance, what do you think the minimum bankroll to play 10/20 would be?

[Ulysses]

Very rough guesses:

For a winning player with an ability to replenish his bankroll if he hits a bad streak, $4-5k.

For a professional player, $8-10k.

[stripsqueez]

how good is 15/30 ?

you get A4s in the BB - folded to the button who calls ! - SB raises and you and the button call - flop is A 9 3 rainbow - turn is another A - river is a 7 - on each betting round the SB bet and i called as did the button, until the river when the button folded

the SB showed Q8o

plenty of loose fearless players who make for a fun game - i suspect that these are the guys who terrorise the lower limits when they hit a winning streak and then get greedy and donate it to a higher level

stripsqueez - chickenhawk