proper strategy for loose-Low-Limit No-Limit

[bad beetz]

for low limit buyin NL games, has anybody posted good long threads in the past for how to play in them?

Doyle Brunson, mega-aggro supersystemish style doesn't work when you get called by very weak holdings.

[Redhotman]

[ QUOTE ]
for low limit buyin NL games, has anybody posted good long threads in the past for how to play in them?

Doyle Brunson, mega-aggro supersystemish style doesn't work when you get called by very weak holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]
You have 1000 posts and ask such a newbe question...Do you play Limit, what stakes?

btw- low lmit NL buy-ins play more liek PL than anyhting, because stacks arent deep

[turnipmonster]

these games are extremely profitable, but take some adjustment, particularly if you are used to playing live big bet.

the biggest differences (for me) are:

people will call your giant raise when you have the nuts.

people will call your giant preflop raise with almost any pocket pair and AK. the other day I limp in with AA, it's raised and reraised allin and called before it gets back to me. I raise allin and the original raiser calls. ready for this? 88, 55 and AK. I quadruple through. good times.

if a fish bets all in on the river, they probably have it.

if a fish raises you more than the minimum, they probably have it.

did I mention that people will call you when you have the nuts?

trapping works quite well at these limits.

bluffing doesn't work very well at these limits. but people will pay you off whenever you have the nuts.

the biggest mistakes the fish make seem to be putting money in preflop. if you raise 6xBB, you will often get 5 to 6 callers, but you'll probably take it down on the flop when you bet the pot.

don't be quite as scared of people's raises as you would in a live game. in a live game, I would never call an EP raise with AQ, but at the $25 PP tables I might. don't take this too far, however.

in general, I think you can be a lot less careful than you would be playing live big bet. it's important not to take it too far, but your opponents are awful, so you don't want to leave money on the table by playing too tight.

--turnipmonster

[X-Calibre]

At the lowest limit party games what tends to win the pot. That's what i think he's asking.

That is, at a real big bet game I would not want to be all in with TPTK. However, does TPTK rule the party low limit games? How do you adjust your starting hands?

[jen]

Really. Are you getting into NL now? Which games?

[bad beetz]

I play 20/40 in San Jose.

I am a newbie to NL, and low-limit NL. I love NL tourneys, but you can make people fold. I'm having trouble making people fold in microlimit online NL games and am also having trouble adjusting. Turnipmonsters post was helpful.

[bad beetz]

about your preflop strategy. Let's assume a PP $25 game and you have $25 and average stack is $25.

[bad beetz]

I'm hooked on NL tourneys.

I played a $500 buyin one in Vegas this weekend and owned it, although I didn't place, I still er. owned it if you know what I mean.

ring games are fun, I'm playing with PP $25

[Redhot_man]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm hooked on NL tourneys.

I played a $500 buyin one in Vegas this weekend and owned it, although I didn't place, I still er. owned it if you know what I mean.

ring games are fun, I'm playing with PP $25

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, i like tournies also. Their are more dimensional - chips change value, strategy, ect.--ring is more standard, you can always get more money.

[crockpot]

you're absolutely right: play like creating a terrorizing table image and putting in a lot of money on questionable hands will do more harm than good at these limits. here are some basic adjustments to make from the game doyle recommends:

- the money is not as deep (especially on party poker). what this means is that the reward for making an excellent hand like a nut straight, nut flush, or set is reduced; and the penalty for getting a hand like top pair or an overpair cracked is lessened. so you should be more willing to push the betting with a top pair top kicker-type hand, and less willing to sit back and hope to hit a big hand.

- the players are looser. this doesn't mean you should stop bluffing or semi-bluffing, but use your head. 'firing the second barrel' is a good example of a play that is much better against doyle brunson than a party fish. against good players, betting a second time on the turn when you have nothing and have unsuccessfully bluffed the flop is a powerful play. against a bad player, you will simply be called.

- know your opponents. if you know the opponent has some kind of hand and he has not demonstrated the capacity to fold a moderate hand to a raise, don't bother trying to run him off it. i've been the victim of this before, even at a $100 table: i'll raise preflop, a guy will come out betting into the ace-high flop, and i KNOW he has the ace with a bad kicker and he should lay it down to a bluff-raise. in the heat of the moment, it's easy to forget that this guy didn't call a raise with his bad ace preflop to hit top pair and then fold it. if the guy's biggest leak is calling too many bets, don't let him profit from it.

- big pairs preflop are a lot stronger. in the game doyle brunson describes, it is often correct to call a big raise 'knowing' your opponent has aces, because you stand to win a lot if you hit your hand. in this game, there isn't that much to be won, which makes hands like AA and KK a lot better. try to get as much money in preflop as possible when holding one of these monsters.

[SlyAK]

One thing that I would like to add to this discussion is "Beware the Calling Station". Calling stations seem to be the most common type of player in these games. Now this can be a good thing or a bad thing.

Example: You have AT, and the flop is AT3. You think you are ahead and bet out, and are called. You bet the turn and are called again. Your opponent ends up beating you and showing down a set of 3's. Often players in these games WON'T raise often but will call with anything from a monster down to top pair no kicker. This will work to your advantage when you have a great hand, because more often than not you will get action. However, on marginal hands I find that I dont know where I stand, which sometimes leads to me checking the river, not wanting to put more money into a potential loser, after my sizeable bets have been called down on the flop and turn.

In any case, there are some newbie thoughts. Good luck with the NL games.

Sly

[turnipmonster]

my preflop strategy is nothing revolutionary. it is more or less like abdul jalib's article for limit hold 'em, in that I place a lot of value in being the aggressor and little value on things like suited connectors, because the stacks are very short.

openraising: my standard raise is either $1 or $3 depending on the game. a lot of times you will win the blinds by openraising for $3, and you are happy to take the blinds with AQo, so keep that in mind.

openinglimping: I will openlimp pretty frequently as I am fond of limp reraising in big bet games.

raising after limpers: the thing to remember here is that people that have limped are going to call your raise, they will almost never fold. this is a lot different from openraising, you can raise big here and people will call.

reraising a raiser: pump it, and they will call /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

personally I try to vary my play a lot at these limits, especially with big offsuit cards. when you make it $3 to go at PP and a K hits on the flop, even a fish knows you probably have his KJ outkicked. but when you limped preflop with AK, that same KJ is going to be value betting against you the whole way.

so when there is a strong possibility you have players dominated, don't drive them out early with a big raise and telegraph your hand. players will just not be able to put you on AK or a big pair if you didn't raise/reraise preflop. this is a very profitable mistake of theirs.

personally I do not really push marginal edges in these games. the advertising has little value (as opposed to a live big bet game, where it is important), and there are just too many spots where you'll have a much larger edge.

I hope all this helps. I am no expert, but I have done extremely well playing in these LL NL games. btw, what is your PP nick? mine is obvious, it's turnipmonste.

--turnipmonster

[turnipmonster]

sorry, I thought he was asking about more general strategy.

as crockpot says, big draws will not net you as much in this game, as the stacks are all short.

I would say probably 80% of my profit in these games comes from sets. don't be afraid to give a free card on a ragged flop if your opponent has overcards.

probably about 10% of my profit comes from trapping with a weak hand like 2 pair or TPTK.

the other 10% comes from sucking out like a fish.

I play my draws in these games very hard, mostly because I have to create a pot to bet at.

your opponents also don't understand:
1) the concept of being pot committed
2) the concept of giving you cheap odds to draw by betting $1 into a $10 pot.

so exploit away.

--turnipmonster