a steal from the SB

[t_perkin]

This is not a particularly exciting hand, but it is the kind of move I make sometimes and I am not sure if it is the kind of thing that I should be cutting out of my game.

$30 NLHE Party SnG
Level 3 (25/50)

I haven't played a single hand yet, other than limping in the SB and BB a few times. So my stack is at about 650.

I have As9c in the SB.

UTG(T1400) limps all fold to me, I limp, and BB(T800) checks fast enough that he must be using the check box buttons.

Flop comes Ah5h5c (pot is 150)

I bet 150, they both fold.

That's it.

It wasn't that I felt my hand had any value, I just thought it looked like an easy pot to steal, and I was right.
But I really would have been shafted on the turn and river if either of them had called, I would have to check and fold. A raise from either of them and I would fold, making me feel very short stacked.
So is this the kind of move that I should reserve for my ring games?

any thoughts?

Tim

[adios]

I wouldn't call this a steal as you had top pair on the flop. FWIW I'd consider checking this hand on the flop as free cards aren't a major problem. Yeah you could get broke on it but chances are you have the best hand going and your chip position isn't all that great.

[Hotrod0823]

On stars I think I make that bet every time with almost any hand top pair or not. On Stars that is a bit easier to get away from given the higher starting chips.

On party given the top pair it's worth a pot bet.

[t_perkin]

If I check then I think I have to fold to a bet from either of them. BB could bet representing the 5, and UTG could easily have AT - AQ. Plus of course there is the flush draw on the board. Plus it is an obvious steal for UTG. I think the odds on niether of them making a bet is very slim. So I am pushed out of the hand.
Also, seeing as I am not drawing to anything then surely if I am willing to call a bet then I should be betting myself.

I don't see how checking will help me, there is no way that I am going to get to the showdown without paying something and I am not drawing so I should surely make the first move and put them at a decision.

If they raise then I have to fold.

tim

[ThaSaltCracka]

like the play! good steal opportunity, you should defenitly makes a few plays like this every tourney. Remember this is a semi-bluff, not a bluff. if they raise you oh well, they probably have you beat, although I think it would be highly unlikely that either has you beat based on their preflop play.
If they do have ypou beat atleast you go out like a man making plays instead of being a posting/folding puss. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[adios]

It's a real long shot that either player has a 5 or flush draw. The BB is a random hand really and if UTG had a decent hand he'd have raised himself most likely preflop. The way you gain by checking is inducing a bluff from the UTG player. I wouldn't fold to a bet here on the flop no way, no how if I checked. Another way you gain is that if it is checked around on the flop and you bet the turn, someone just might pay you off with a second best hand believing that you would have bet your ace on the flop. Unless the UTG is very tight and passive I'd expect to have the best hand going with very few ways that someone beats me in this particular situation.

Personally I don't see how you gain by betting the hand. If you have the best hand going your opponents fold when you bet and if you don't you've put money in the pot on a losing proposition. Give yourself a little extra equity by "finessing" your opponents into betting a hand they would not have bet otherwise or by finessing them into calling when they're big dogs. The pot is fairly small and your chip position IMO isn't all that great.

[CrisBrown]

Hiya Tim,

As a general rule, when the board pairs on the flop, the first player to bet is going to take the pot ... UNLESS a later player has hit a set. That having been said, if you bluff at a paired board and get called, you have to back off, on the assumption that they have hit a set.

Which creates an interesting steal possibility which I use occasionally: the board pairs on the flop and an EP player takes a stab at the pot. I call. If he checks at the turn and there are no scary draws out there, I'll check behind. If he checks at the river, I'll make a smallish bet -- one that looks like it wants a call -- and more often than not he'll fold ... assuming I have a set and have been trying to milk him.

Of course, I'll often play a set the same way, which is what makes this move so difficult to read. Does she have it this time, or not?

Cris