99 plays

[rharless]

Here are some plays that I made with the hand 99, all at Party 5-10. I think some are bad and some are good (more bad than good). What do you think of each one? Rank the hands in order of worst to best.

Hand A

EP poster, who is a known LAG checks (yes, he posted UTG+1). Then another limper (can be LAG), and SB completes. I raise with black 9/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the BB.

Flop is all black: J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif. I bet and all three call.

Turn is 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.

I check, with no clear plan in mind. All I know is I don't like having three flop callers.

Hand B

Same table, but some turnover -- mostly fish except for the EP-posting LAG still remains two to my left.

I limp UTG with black 9/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. LAG MP raises. Very loose-passive in LP cold calls. A new LAG to the table three-bets from the SB. He has loose 3-betting standards, BUT, it's safe to say he holds probably at least two broadway cards. I call two cold; others call.

FLop is 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. We check to LAG MP who bets. LP folds, SB calls. I think for a long time and calculate my odds at 14.x:1. My odds are too thin and I almost fold but then I decide to virtually wing my chips in there, based on the implied odds/tiltability of these two specific players, should I hit my 9. (I have played over 300 hands with each)

Hand C

Loose EP player limps, I raise in MP with red 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. All fold and EP calls. He is totally unknown.

Flop is 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I bet and EP calls.

Turn is Q/images/graemlins/club.gif. We both check, me with the intention of putting one and exactly one bet in, on a non-9 river.

Hand D

A very loose passive table. We have two on this table that see 66%+ flops.

UTG (66%'er #1) limps, I overlimp in EMP with black 9/images/graemlins/club.gif9/images/graemlins/spade.gif. LP limps (66%'er #2). SB completes and BB checks.

Flop is 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I bet and BB and UTG both call me.

Turn is T/images/graemlins/spade.gif. I bet and only BB calls me.

River is Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. We both check.

[Louie Landale]

Well, one over card is a lot better than two overcards. Also, 99 is pretty vulnerable against loose folks due to the over-cards. Its tough to play unless you feel confortable betting into over-cards.

[A] Lets not raise PF with 99 in the BB if it will cower the opponents into flat calling or checking if they make an over-pair. In this case you don't know if anybody has a J on the turn. Now if you believe they WOULD raise with a J on the flop had you NOT raised PF, then your raise has denied you valuable post-flop information. This argument applies to late postion where you are better off knowing that they WILL bet into you with top pair; don't raise with 99 so you can easily lay it down on the flop.

Lets not underestimate the ability of loose players to call without top pair. Just because there are only a few hands YOU would call with on the flop does NOT mean there are not LOTs of hands the loose opponents will call with. That's why they are called "loose". So, yes, be paranoid if 3 tight players call; be much less so if 3 loose players call.

The real problem here is that you have no idea what you are going to do. If you have the lead and don't know what to do it probably means you'll call if they bet which almost always means, with a non-premium pair, you are better off betting it out. "When in doubt bet it out" applies here.

[B] I guess you are not tempted to lay this down for 2 bets PF. You are up against at least 3 overcards if you are not up against a big pair. Implied odds are pretty short PF.

On the flop ... lets not forget you are NOT a lock if you DO snag your 9. In this case it CAN make someone a straight and if not almost certainly gives someone a straight draw; and you can also be up against a big set. And your 9d is NOT a clean out. You'd be MUCH better off with the red 2s (a hand, I believe, you would automatically fold with) than the black 9s in this spot.

Two bad calls on this one.

[C] Q is a good turn card: you are less likely to be beat (one less card he can have) AND he's less likely to call you with a T and less likely to call you with a draw.

Put your "exactly one bet" in on the turn: he'll call with more hands than he'd bet on the river, and you can get him to fold hands drawing to beat you.

[D] Except that it made the flush, I would be VERY tempted to bet out 3rd pair heads-up against a LAG who keeps calling. Can't blame you for checking, however.

- Louie

[bmedwar]

[ QUOTE ]
unless you feel confortable betting into over-cards.


[/ QUOTE ]

I am under the impression that you would never play middle pair without having an overcard yourself. I got this impression from the semi-bluff chapter in HFAP. Am I missing something? Can you point me to a discussion of the strategy behind playing a middle pair w/o an overcard.

[rharless]

Louie, thanks for your reply; I am always educated when you respond to my posts.

[A] The raise PF is a sometimes-thing. I think my key problem in this hand is that two LAGgy players did not raise PF, nor raise me on the flop. LAGs do not play any hand, that beats mine, so passively. Thus I really should be betting that turn.

[B] my post-hand thoughts exactly. Just too thin all the way around

[C] I was actually not worried about the Q-pairing. I thought that was a good card for me to induce a bluff with from hands like A-high. But, I do like the idea of a T-folding to my turn bet which I had not considered. And I think sometimes I use the "induce a river bluff" excuse to justify my weak-tight turn checks.

[D] I don't know how often my hand would have to be good, when called, for this to be a good bet.

[Benn Eubank]

This is a very helpful post indeed for people such as myself that struggle with the decisions around holding a pair with overcard(s) on the flop. Thank you!

Cheers, Benn.