Rant: My pet hate

[Tosh]

I seem to be continuously reading posts offering advice or asking about hands saying 'a worse hand will not call'. The times in low limit games where this is true are just so rare. Someone will nearly always call you. So if you have 2 pair but a 3rd of a suit has just hit, don't use that line as an excuse to be weak, bet because there are literally dozens of possible hands waiting to pay you off.

[Joe Tall]

[RydenStoompala]

Well put. In fact, it's the essense of low-limit hold'em.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

There's little doubt in my mind that there usually is a worse hand waiting to call, especially in limit poker. However, the example you gave is a poor one. Two pair with a three flush on board isn't one of those clear times when only a better hand will fold. These situations DO sometimes come up. A better example would be when you have two pair and there's four to a str8 and four to a flush on board. Tho it's possible a worse hand might call, you'd generally be quite silly to bet into several players here.

al

[Bob T.]

Worse hands will call. Just the other day, my session was rescued by two hands where I bet a flopped second pair from the flop to the river, and when I was called on the river, I thought that I was dead, but then my opponent mucked, and I won two nice pots.

[george w of poker]

yeah happens to me also, but it does go the other way too.

another case is when you are betting a flopped second pair with a poor kicker all the way h/u (with position). The turn bumps you down to third pair but unlikely to help your opponent, then the bottom card on the flop pairs with the river. while there is a good chance your hand is still good, there is no way i'm going to bet that even against the most skeptical of opponents who will call down with king high.

i know this is kinda rare but it happened to me yesterday and is a good example of a place not to bet. btw, my hand was good.

[ElSapo]

Hero has Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is CO

EP1 limps, EP2 limps, MP1 limps, MP3 limps, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, EP1 folds, EP2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls

Flop(15 SB): 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB bets, BB folds, EP2 folds, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB calls, MP1 calls

Turn(11 1/2 BB): Q/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bets, MP1 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB calls

River(15 1/2 BB): 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls

SB showed 63o. No, I'm not kidding.

[Robk]

[ QUOTE ]
when I was called on the river, I thought that I was dead

[/ QUOTE ]

If you thought you were such a big underdog if you were called, why were you betting?

[bmedwar]

why would you raise w/ middle pair and no overcard and an Ace on the board with so many opponents? One of them MUST have an Ace and drawing to the third Queen is NOT giving you enough odds.

[Bob T.]

Okay, I exaggerated a little bit when I said I thought I was dead.

[Tosh]

I agree it was a poor example but it was based on a real post. I saw someone say that when someone had 2 pair on a 3 flush board.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you raise w/ middle pair and no overcard and an Ace on the board with so many opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you routinely fold your big pair to a single bet when an ace flops, your opponents will begin to run over you.

[ QUOTE ]
One of them MUST have an Ace

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that?

Stu

[Gildersneeze]

[ QUOTE ]
why would you raise w/ middle pair and no overcard and an Ace on the board with so many opponents? One of them MUST have an Ace and drawing to the third Queen is NOT giving you enough odds.

[/ QUOTE ]Because he's not a wuss, and he knows how to represent better than a pair of aces, fooling his opponents with better hands into folding, if they indeed even had a better hand?

SB bet, effectively saying "I have an ace." His raise likely said to Mr. Ihaveanace something like "I have an ace too. What's your kicker look like, tough guy?"

You've got to raise to get some information on your opponent's cards. If the SB, or someone behind had re-raised, then no, he wouldn't have been wise to go further with the middle pair. As it stood, he found out that the SB had a hand that he thought was worth betting, but not three-betting.

It turned out even better when the third Queen hit, and better still when the SB turned out to be a complete sucker showing down the missed gutshot.

Also note that he was the only raiser pre-flop. Premium hands would have re-raised, so if there was an ace, it was likely either a suited ace-middle (6-9) that wasn't diamonds, or hell, as loose as that pre-flop was, it was probably an offsuit ace-middle.

I daresay there wasn't a solid ace, or even any ace among the rest, because no one was agressing besides him. The SB's bet-call action suggests "Drawing/marginal Hand" to me, not "made hand."