Another T8s hand

[Aaron Lovi]

Hi,

Here's a 2nd hand where I had T8s and then got confused.

UTG, MP limp. I limp with Th8h and the blinds are in. The flop is Qd8c7h. SB bets and everyone calls up to me.

So what would you do here?

Results later,

[crockpot]

call. with 9:1, a pair, and backdoor flush and straight draws, you are getting odds to play and hope to get lucky. raising is not that wise unless your opponents are very weak players.

[Aaron Lovi]

[Joe Tall]

Call.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[Bob T.]

I like call also, a lot of good things could happen with the next card.

[Aaron Lovi]

I raised and got 3-bet by utg who held AQ.

[bmedwar]

You should fold this. You need an overcard if you want to play a middle pair.

[Louie Landale]

A real option is to call figuring to fold the turn if bet into or bet if checked to. This works best against folks who will slow-down on the turn.

The real problem with this hand is that snagging a T can give someone else a straight or a straight draw.

- Louie

[bmedwar]

Th 8h - Qd 8c 7h

What am I missing here? I really feel that HFAP would suggest that you fold this hand. You have middle pair w/o an overcard. The backdoor, non-nut flush draw doesn't seem to add much potential. Backdoor with a gut-shot 9 straight draw isn't likely. I'd think that the chance that somebody has a Q or an open-ended straight draw, make this an easy fold. Please clue me in.

[Saborion]

[ QUOTE ]
You need an overcard if you want to play a middle pair.


[/ QUOTE ]
No you don't.

[ZAC]

You have the proper odds - 9:1 on a 6 outer which is about 7:1 not to mention the backdoor possibilities.

[JTG51]

You need an overcard if you want to play a middle pair.

That's terrible advice. We're playing hold'em, not 7CS.

[josie_wales]

[ QUOTE ]
You should fold this. You need an overcard if you want to play a middle pair.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have a queston with this. Could it possibly be *worse* to have an overcard?

For example, if you then hit your overcard for 2-pair, you are much more likely to be against a higher two pair.
(ie: AQ from this hand)

jw

[josie_wales]

Another question...with an UTG limper and not too too many in the pot...is this an ok limp?

I usually fold in this situation...too tight?

Thanks

jw

[bmedwar]

Can you really count six outs here, when those outs could be helping other playable hands (TT, 88, J9s, 87s, QTs)?

[bmedwar]

Hold on. There are only 5 outs (two 8s and three Ts). That's 8.4 to 1 odds, so if you consider that your outs might be helping somebody else too, folding to the 9:1 pot odds is correct.

[Trix]

All of you who said this was a call on the flop can you explain why ? cuz I dont see it.
In an unraised pot, I think there is a good chance that he could loose even though he hits his outs. I know the odds suggests a call, but that would change if just one of his outs arent good, especially since he wont know which and it will be expensive if this is the case. Also the odds for the call in case they arent taken isnt that great, so he isnt giving up much by folding.