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View Full Version : Hand from the 2+2 SnG


NotMitch
01-28-2004, 11:52 PM
Its very early in a 2 table SnG everyone is right around 1500 and the blinds are 15/30, you are UTG with A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif, and there is a table full of 2+2er's left to act behind you, how do you play and why?

DougBrennan
01-29-2004, 01:08 AM
If it's me, I bet 3xBB, get called, watch the flop miss me, bet the pot, get re-raised all-in, call, and go down in flames to trips.

But that's just me. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

What I'd *like* to do is raise 3xBB and then play intelligently from that point, folding to any serious pressure pre-flop, or post-flop if I miss.

William
01-29-2004, 01:16 AM
I'll just fold, AQ UTG is nothing but trouble. I'm quite sure there will be plenty of opportunities to trap the "tight squad" later on /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Take care,
William

DougBrennan
01-29-2004, 01:27 AM
William,

I'm curious. Another well-respected poster here, I think it may be Kurn, and now you, have both talked about tossing AQ UTG. I have no doubt you are right, but it flies in the face of logic, at least my logic. To me, AQ has a decent shot at being the best starting hand in any given hand, and why not bet it some and see what happens?

Granted that if you play it like an idiot, as I did tonight (actually tonight was AJ for me, but the priciple was the same) you can lose you butt, but assuming reasonable, thoughtful play, where do the problems lie?

I think I'm looking for some ideas that would help me fold AQ, because it always *seems* too tight when I do so, or even think about it.

jpg777
01-29-2004, 01:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If it's me, I bet 3xBB, get called, watch the flop miss me, bet the pot, get re-raised all-in, call, and go down in flames to trips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that should read check-raised all-in /images/graemlins/grin.gif, but never mind that. I like the 3-4XBB raise, and I agree with dbrennan on the rest.

Jeff

CrisBrown
01-29-2004, 01:32 AM
Hi NotMitch,

I'd limp and see what happens. I'll call a 3xBB raise with it, but I'd rather not make the open-raise and get reraised off of it, and I don't want to get pot-committed on it. If it hits nicely, fine. If not, I'm out ... unless I'm in a 2+2 event, in which case I'll check-raise all-in and get my bottom kicked out....

Cris

ohkanada
01-29-2004, 01:32 AM
Make it 100 to go. You will find out if AQ is in trouble soon enough!

Ken Poklitar

letitbleed
01-29-2004, 01:38 AM
I think it's too early to raise 3xbb pre-flop utg with any hand but qq kk aa. I would just limp and hope to see the flop cheap with a handsome hand. I also might min. raise to clear out some bargain hunters.
-bleed

William
01-29-2004, 01:58 AM
Doug,

If I am in LP, I would also raise (or reraise) with Aq, but UTG it's just too many problems.
When you get called, it will normally be by a better hand AK or pair
When you get reraised, you have to let it go(or go yourself shortly after /images/graemlins/grin.gif)
When You hit an A, Ak is counting your chips /images/graemlins/grin.gif
When you don't hit. What then? A check will allways be followed by a bet. A bet will often just cost you extra chips.
The only good scenario, it's in fact when the flop comes Q high, and then you probably won't win any more chips
If you are playing shorthanded, it's another story. Then you want to raise big and either go all-in or get the blinds.

I must strongly disagree with those players that just limp along and see what happens. The good stuff just doesn't happen often enough.

Don't fall in love with your cards, even if they look pretty, you must be very selective when playing full table UTG, another hand will soon be coming your way.

Take care,
William

Pitcher
01-29-2004, 02:00 AM
Hi All,

I think this depends on the game. I think AQ is just slightly too good to toss in the game you describe. The blinds are too small and I have the discipline to get away from this hand. I will mini-raise to clear some of the possible callers. If re-raised (other than a mini-reraise) I will toss it. If the flop misses, I will usually check and fold (as always, it depends on the table)
Now let's change the scenario slightly. $30 Party Sit N Go, everyone has roughly $800 chips. Now I am with William - "Auto - Toss" mode! You just can't afford to get involved this early in this type of tourney. I would say almost the same thing on a $50 Party with $1000 chips.

Pitcher

CrisBrown
01-29-2004, 02:09 AM
Hi William,

[ QUOTE ]
I must strongly disagree with those players that just limp along and see what happens. The good stuff just doesn't happen often enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

AQo is a nice hand on an A-high flop in an unraised pot, as there's no particular reason to suspect AK is lurking. And it's an easy hand to get away from when it misses. All in all, limping with AQo from UTG is likely to win a nice pot, or cost only 1 BB. I'll take that scenario.

Cris

William
01-29-2004, 02:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
All in all, limping with AQo from UTG is likely to win a nice pot, or cost only 1 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

And how are you going to win a nice pot?
If you bet everybody folds and if you check call/raise the action stops right there.

Your position just doesn't allow you to win anything, unless it's the local homegame.

CrisBrown
01-29-2004, 02:24 AM
Hi William,

I've had success with AQo on an A-high flop by check-calling at the flop, then betting fairly small at the turn and river. A lot of weaker As will call me down. On the other hand, just as with AK, you have to be careful on any Ace-Face flop, as it's very possible your TPQK has run into two pair.

All in all, I think limping with AQo from UTG is +EV. I've had good success with it overall, certainly much more than when I first began and would automatically raise with AQo, getting myself pot-committed with Big Slick's anemic little brother....

Cris

William
01-29-2004, 02:33 AM
Cris,

I can accept that, and I guess bottom line is who you are playing with.
I personally like to get involved in pots knowing I have the best hand. But I know that others have a different aproach to the game, limping a lot and trying to get lucky.

Difference of style.
From Moby's fishing school:(Keep the fish happy at all time) /images/graemlins/grin.gif

letitbleed
01-29-2004, 03:59 AM
I see Mr. Malmuth responds to some of this. I would love to hear his thoughts on this situation. They say dont raise big pre-flop if you dread a re-raise.