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naphand
01-28-2004, 06:25 PM
We talk a lot about hand selection, and how to play hands in here but, what about table selection?

An experience I had in Party yesterday left me thinking about what kind of table conditions people like to play under.

Personally, I like to see a couple loose passive/calling station types one of whom will pay you off by calling any part of the flop to the River. I am happy to see one or two other aggressive players on the table (but not more than 1 maniac) as I often get the chance to 3-bet hands where I want to get the chips in and the players out. The others I prefer as weak/tight or typical.

Too many LAG and the table gets a bit wild for me - though I have done pretty well on these kinds of tables when I see them. Perhaps it's just a confidence thing, but a poor run of cards on a table like this and you are looking at some pretty big down swings.

Too many tight players and the game is just plain tedious.

Too many loose/passives and you are looking at lots of suckouts, raising becoming less effective as far as manipulating players involved goes, blinds that never fold (so no steals possible) and bluffing a waste of time.

I was prompted me to post this after playing a Party $1/$2 table of complete fish. 5 players all seeing the flop for a limp, every hand (or calling 2 when I raised). No-one folding the Flop with any part of it. Any draw was played to the River, regardless, as was any pair. My results were terrible. I only stopped when the table broke up, but suspect the torture would have continued indefinitely... /images/graemlins/mad.gif

42 hands played.
-18.5BB
V$IP 21%
Saw flop 43% (never raised PF)
Hands won 1 (1.5BB)

Clearly this was a small sample and I was dealt some poor cards/missed flops but, I saw many, many hands won with FH, straights, flushes. Alarmingly so. I have played tables like this previously, and usually find them extremely frustrating as you really need a good run of cards to wealk away with a profit, it seems.

Would you really want to play a table like this? This is what prompted me to post - maybe there are better table conditions more conducive to winning big pots with less variance.

Just an idea (not a bad beat column).

Apocalypse
01-28-2004, 08:02 PM
why is their always so much badmouthing about tables full of fishes that can't be brought to a fold (why is this a bad thing?!?!). Tighten up and be as agressive as can be when u hit.(u don't need to hide, or decept cuz they don't see [censored] anyways) If u got a bad streaks that sux, but normally u can get your money at a nofoldem-holdem table just as well as any other table. Even more so if u play accordingly..

daryn
01-28-2004, 08:04 PM
i think table selection is of the utmost importance when playing shorthanded party games. i love a table with a couple maniacs capping with any 2, and i was seated at one today.. what a delight! sure my AA got cracked by a river gutshot in a $300 pot, but it's EV out the a**... i ended up making a quick buck when all was said and done.

naphand
01-29-2004, 04:20 AM
I was not trying to bad-mouth these kinds of tables. It was just an experience which made me think about the effect of table conditions.

Playing SH normally gives you plenty of action, but tight games and very loose/passive games lead to having to play very tight, with limited opportunities. At least in a tight game you can steal and bluff to win pots, which means you are not so much at the whim of the deal. On a loose/passive fishy table you have to show down the best hand 99% of the time it seems.

It's not the suckouts/bad beats I am talking about here, it's more about the enjoyment/profitability angle plus skill. Enjoyment = interest = focus.

On such a fishy table your "poker armoury" is more limited, and sometimes it appears that all you are doing is waiting for good hands, then hammering them and hoping they hold up. There is some room for limited deception, obviously, but its more a game of standards and patience, than skill.

Just trying to see what people think.

As Daryn says, and I agree, is that a game with a maniac (or at least some aggressive raising) gives you more opportunity to build some pots. Plus with players who will actually fold, you have the chance to make some plays and win some pots uncontested - meaning you are not so dependent on cards. Do you see?

I do not think it is a straightforward choice when you see a table of passive players, and another table with more aggressive play - I tend to go for the more aggressive game now, previously I may have just played the weakest game.

Apocalypse
01-29-2004, 05:35 AM
sorry if i got the wrong message...was a little bit hasty i guess..

theres one thing i totally agree on when it comes to fishy tables. Enjoyment = interest = focus THERE IS NONE

i find it very boring to play these tables...