big pot big laydown

[gaylord focker]

25-50 at the hustler, I'm sitting next to Josh W. remending him he better not post any of the recent button calls I had just made. Anyhow, I have J /images/graemlins/heart.gif10 /images/graemlins/heart.gif in middle position and limp along after UTG, who is tricky aggresive and tough. One more limper and 5 of us see the flop.

Flop: 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif:10 /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/club.gif

Blinds check, UTG bets, I raise, all fold to BB who calls two cold. Utg three bets, I four bet, and the BB calls again. I dont have much of a read on BB's play at this point, although he is a bit over aggresive.

Turn: 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG leads out and I fold. OK the pot is obviously huge, and of course the jack of spades hit on the river. Josh said he thought I had a clear call here, I thought it was close. Any thoughts?

[haakee]

Seems like you have to be behind here. You have a maximum of 4 outs. You are getting 9:1. I would be concerned about a BB check-raise which kills your odds to fill up. It is close. I don't think a fold is so bad here.

[Gabe]

So the BB checked the turn? Since it was the UTG who be the turn, there may be some chance you still have the best hand, but the BB is still to act, so it’s close because the BB could check-raise. If the BB had bet, there would be almost no chance you had the best hand, but you would be last to act, so you should call, especially if the UTG called the bet.

[afish]

There are 9.5 big bets in the pot. You are a 10.5:1 dog to fill up. If you fill up you are sure to get at least one more bet on the river. On the other hand, you run the risk of a check raise from BB, followed by a three-bet from UTG, and a possible cap from BB. I agree that it is close. When it is close, I call.

[andyfox]

The others have pointed out the positives and negatives of calling. I agree it's close.

I wonder if any one questions the wisdom of playing pre-flop. UTG is tricky, aggressive, and tough. When you hit top two with J-T, there are usually draws for other players.
And tricky, aggressive, and tough is going to make it tricky and tough for you by betting scare cards aggressively.

[gaylord focker]

Preflop, I agree with you that folding might be correct here, if that is what you are implying. If it were a bad limper that came in UTG, I think calling is probably correct, but J 10 can be pretty easliy dominated by a good UTG limper.

On the turn even though he is very tricky, I have to give him at least a straight, or maybe bottom set. I think he views me as pretty squeeky tight, so when I put four bets in on the flop, I dont think he expected to lose me on the turn. That in combination with the fact that he has to fear a checkraise from the BB a little, I dont think he can lead out with a worse hand here. As aggresive as the game was, I think if I had it to do over again I would have put my hand in the dumpster preflop.

The reason I did fold was because I figured it was about a break even call if the BB didnt checkraise, but If he did, which seemed fairly likely, I would have been stuck taking way the worst of it.

[Josh W]

I CERTAINLY don't remember the hand in question....

Lemme just ask this...did you change the suit of ONE of your cards? The way I remember it, you had JTo, with a club, flop came JT8, two clubs, turn was a 7 of clubs...

The big difference is it improves your hand from 4 outs on the turn to 5 (straight flush)....given the other hands we vowed to each other that we WOULDN'T post, I'm guessing you really had JTo /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You dropped off JY tonight, but didn't come in to play????

Josh

[gaylord focker]

Hey Josh,

I'm going to go ahead and take 5th on this one, I feel i am within my legal rights to ignore that question. Anyway, I think it was really close, and the only reason I posted the hand was because I questioned my decision after the hand because I respect you opinion.

I did drop off Janet, but unfortunately they beat me up so badly at the bike I didnt feel like playing at the hustler. Hope you did well though.

[daryn]

take the 5th?? in other words you limped with JTo but you wanted to post the hand, so you changed it to JTh so people would think you were a better player than you actually are?

or am i wrong here