Between a rock and a hard place (long)

I've played some wild and crazy games before, but the other night I played in the craziest 3-6 game I have ever seen. There was at least one $200+ pot every round. The main reason is the maniac in seat 10. He raises any two cards to the max preflop and on the flop regardless of whether he has a prayer or not. Guys were taking down $150 pots with top pair-no kicker against this guy. Many pots were capped preflop and on the flop between the maniac and a player with an actual hand. The draws just came along for the expensive ride. I played very few hands in this game, I was basically waiting to flop a monster hand or monster draw and hit the big payday. Or I was trying to go heads-up with the maniac if I held top pair or better. About half the time the maniac would bail on the river if he never hit anything, but sometimes he would raise and checkraise the river with nothing. Sometimes he had the goods, but usually he didn't.


Here is a hand I got caught up in and I don't know if I played it properly. I have a tight image at the table since I have played so few hands. Even the maniac has given me a little respect by slowing down faster against me than with other players. Middle player (MP) plays too liberally preflop, but decent post-flop. I think his biggest weakness is taking mediocre draws too far when the pot odds are not there (like taking gutshot draws to the river for $30 pots).


Preflop: UTG raises, maniac is next to act and 3-bets, MP calls. I have AhKs and cold-call, UTG caps it. Four players to the flop.


Flop: As Js Jh.


Decent, but scary. UTG checks, maniac bets, MP raises, I reraise, UTG folds, maniac caps, MP calls last two bets. Three players to the turn.


Turn: Qs. A terrible card for me. Maniac bets, MP raises. I cold-call (raise? fold?). Maniac 3-bets, MP caps it. I don't know where the hell I am right now. I call the last two bets. I figure if I'm beat, I have the nut spade to give me more outs since I doubt anyone has filled up yet.


River: 2h.


Board: As Js Jh Qs 2h.


Maniac bets, MP raises. I folded. Will I win enough times to make this call profitable? What are the chances that noone has a jack or flush? I expect the maniac will 3-bet the river and I don't like the idea having to call 4BB on the river to see this hand down.


Will post results later on.


Thanks in advance for any comments.

I like your raise on the flop. You could have the best hand, but you certainly want to get rid of all the other players if you can. The raise also lets you know where you stand. It also puts pressure on the MP if he is on a draw and the Maniac bets the turn again (which is almost a certainty).


But you should fold on the turn to the raise of the MP. The only hand you can beat that he could possibly hold after calling the two cap bets on the flop is ATo. That is not a hand he would raise with here, though.

He either made his flush, hit his Q to QQ, or in my opinion more likely, has a jack. Folding here saves you two bets, especially since you cannot be sure your flush outs will be good. You might be drawing almost dead here (except for an A).


In my opinion, you are clearly beat on the river. So a fold is OK. The danger of the maniac three betting here would keep me from calling even if I had some doubts. Right now it appears you are getting 15:1 for the cold call on the river. If maniac 3bets it and MP caps it, you are getting only a little bit better than 8:1, so that cuts down your odds a lot.


Fold.


You probably went in preflop with the best hand and got outflopped. Happens. Shake it off and wait for another opportunity.


Stephan

The maniac ended up 3-betting the river, MP capped it, maniac called. MP turned over A4o and maniac mucked.


I couldn't believe MP had such a weak hand. I obviously gave this guy way too much credit. It made me wonder however if he just outplayed me on the hand. I think MP may have made a brilliant, but ballsy move here by accident. I think he had tunnel vision with regards to the maniac and forgot I was still in the hand. I mean, everyone was capping it with the maniac HEADS-UP, but I couldn't believe MP was reckless enough to raise it up like that in a 3-way pot. The more I think about it, by taking that much heat to get to the river, I would have these guys beaten (or even drawing dead) 90% of the time. I mean what did MP put me on? How could he expect a tight player to call 4BB on the turn with a hand he could beat?


I don't really disagree with your idea of folding on the turn when it's 2 bets cold, I almost DID fold, but I really felt that my flush was good if it hit. I called on the turn with a draw and was hoping for a cheap showdown on the river in case I was good.

i think the MP guy is putting a move on you. he knows you've probably got some strength, at least a good A after seeing that flop. he know the other guy is a maniac, and he knows you are tight, and respect him. he is trying to play you off the maniac and get you to fold. you almost definitely have the maniac beat. i think that some hands like this you either have to fold on the flop or commit to seeing an expensive river. id hate to take it this far to fold for 2 more bets. maniacs increase fluctuations and this is one of those pots where you stand to fluctuate... i personally would have to call this one down this time. id feel like crap if i had folded the best hand, and id just chalk it up to the information war if i lost and got to see two better hands.

Wow. That was tough to see.


I still think you could not have expected the MP to be so weak and thus your fold was good. Fold on the turn would have been even better.


Stay in this game, though and be prepared to tighten up, but when you are in the pot it seems calling down even with a mediocre hand against the maniac and one other opponent becomes profitable. This will certainly increase your fluctuations, but hopefully in a good way /images/smile.gif


Good luck.


Stephan

What he put you on was the ability to fold an A to a lot of heat.


KJS

Preflop I would have capped


On the flop, I think you played fine.


The turn card isn't bad for you, especially against maniacs. You have a nut flush draw that will probably still be good, and even if someone has a boat, you have one out that will make you a TON of money if you hit. Imagine how many bets you get in against maniacs with full houses or quads if you hit your 10s. I'd call all bets. There is easily enough money in the pot to call.


On the river, if you assume it's going to get capped, that's 35.5 bets and it'll cost you 4 bets to call. that's about 9-1, so you need to win around 11% of the time. I tend to call in huge pots against maniacs since folding the best hand puts me on tilt for weeks.