Player claims he's still owed $37.5K on online Marlins bet

[M.B.E.]

Here (http://www.gambling911.com/Intertops-Futures.html) is a link to an article from gambling911.com about a dispute with the online sports-betting site Intertops (http://www.intertops.com/index-e.html).

Apparently, in July 2003 a player bet $1,100 on the Marlins to win the World Series, at odds of 125-to-1. When the Marlins won, Intertops credited the player's account with $138,600 (126 times $1,100). Then, apparently, Intertops realized they had a rule that a player was not allowed to win more than $100,000 in a week, so they took back the excess over $101,100. The player claims he is still owed $37,500.

The player's argument, I imagine, is that first of all he never received proper notice of the $100,000 cap on winnings, and second, they should never have accepted his bet of $1,100 at 125-to-1 odds if it was against their rules to pay it out. They should have told him that the maximum he could bet was $800.

A press release issued by Intertops in October 2003 (http://www.intertops.com/sportsbook/cgi-win-2/itpage.exe?page=press/2003/02102003) states that the player "won an amazing USD 100,000 when the Marlins defeated the Yankees on Saturday".

Presumably the matter will be decided by Antigua and Barbuda's Directorate of Offshore Gaming (http://www.antiguagaming.gov.ag/). It will be interesting to see whether the regulatory body supports the player or its licensee.

[Your Mom]

they definitly should honor the bet. The site needs to monitor bet size so it doesn't break their own rules. I highly doubt they refund the difference if Steve fuckin Bartman gets out of the way or if Alex Gonzalez hadn't made his first error in a monthh.
I do wonder, though, if the 100 k rule is in the agreement you have to read when you sign up. Good info MBE. Thanks.

[Cubswin]

[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt they refund the difference if Steve fuckin Bartman gets out of the way or if Alex Gonzalez hadn't made his first error in a monthh.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks....i almost had forgotten about that nightmare of a game /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Yeknom58]

If he lost do you think they would have given him 300 back....I THINK NOT!
If he can get enough bad press rolling I think he can get his money but if not I think he's screwed.

[M.B.E.]

The article said the player had hired a lawyer but didn't specify who the lawyer was, or whether the lawyer practised in the U.S. or in Antigua (or both).

I would assume that the player will fight the matter out before the Antiguan regulatory authority, rather than commencing an action in court.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
The Florida Marlins weren’t everybody’s choice for the World Series title at the start of the season, but Jason L. from Coral Springs had a nose for the right team and won an amazing USD 100,000 when the Marlins defeated the Yankees on Saturday.

When contacted by the Intertops.com Team Jason was already celebrating with his friends and told us he “ never had a doubt that the Marlins would lose ”.


[/ QUOTE ]

I guess he bet with his heart, not his head.

[Homer]

I highly doubt they refund the difference if Steve fuckin Bartman gets out of the way or if Alex Gonzalez hadn't made his first error in a monthh.

Get over it. That Bartman guy didn't do anything wrong.

[daryn]

right.. the guy is a fan at the game, cut him a break. why don't you fault the actual major league baseball players who cost the cubs the game?

[Losing all]

I agree, very -EV.. He put a beat on the site with his rags, now they don't want to pay.

[mosch]

[ QUOTE ]
The maximum dollar amount that may be won by an individual customer, syndicate or partners per bet is one hundred thousand (100,000.00) dollars U.S. currency or the equivalent in the currency of your Intertops.com betting account.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't read the fine print, placed a bet that was too large and then got paid according to the schedule he agreed to when he signed up. I don't have a lot of sympathy.

[Oski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The maximum dollar amount that may be won by an individual customer, syndicate or partners per bet is one hundred thousand (100,000.00) dollars U.S. currency or the equivalent in the currency of your Intertops.com betting account.

[/ QUOTE ]

He didn't read the fine print, placed a bet that was too large and then got paid according to the schedule he agreed to when he signed up. I don't have a lot of sympathy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You certainly are correct, however, the amount wagered and potential win were both KNOWN at the time the wager was ACCEPTED. L.V. Books often accept bets over their posted max. The point is that even though a policy is written down, such policy can be changed pursuant to agreement.

Here, the excess bet was posted and it was no secret that the payout would be 130+ thousand. The policy was, therefore, overridden and Intertops should pay. If one party wishes to avail itself of a contractual policy, it must act accordingly...acts in defiance of such policy indicate that party has WAIVED its rights under that policy.

Intertops WAIVED its right to rely on the policy - It knew how much was at stake, yet accepted the bet anyway.

[Wake up CALL]

Good post Oski, but it brings up a question regarding roulette in Vegas. I ocassionally sit down and play roulette while enjoying a cigar and normally see the payout limits reading something like this:

Max Bet $500
Min Bet $5
Max Payout $3500

This leads me to the rest of the story. A black chip bettor at the wheel where I was playing had been sprinkling single $100 chips on 5 numbers for a few spins. This one spin in particular he dropped two black chips on one number and one chip on a few other numbers. The number on which he had bet $200 hit. After the dust had settled and he was being paid a pit boss was called over. He explained the meaning of Max Payout to the black chip bettor and paid him for a single $100 chip on the number but gave him even money on the extra $100 bet. He did not seem to mind and continued playing.

My question is this: If he had pushed his case do you believe it is the same as the sports book question above and he should have been paid or are these circumstances different?

Thanks in advance,

Wake

[Ray Zee]

the roulette thing is a tough one as the bet can happen so fast the dealer cant catch it. in the sports bet they had the time to tell him.
how about a blackjack anology. the table limit is 500. a player doesnt see the sign and bets 1000. does he lose it if he loses, and is told he can only bet 500 if he wins.
casinos think this way, so you have to beware. but if you run a business you cant penalize your good customers with the fine print clause.

[La Brujita]

I think this is a huge mistake on the part of Intertops. I am a corporate lawyer (but not a litigator) and I think it is a close case if it went to a judge. Sure they had the clause, but by accepting the full bet did that act as a waiver of that clause?

It is pretty easy to argue that Intertops waived to provision by accepting the bet. They also did not rescind within a reasonable time.

If you look at the sophistication of the parties, you have to err on the side of protecting the individual who made a good faith bet vs. a corporation who should have procedures in place to prevent this.

As a business decision, it is pi$$ poor. The bad press they get has got to be worth more than the 37k.

Just my two cents.

[Your Mom]

Maybe you guys missed my part about Alex Gonzalez. Is it Bartman's fault? No. Did he do something wrong? Yes. Take a look at how 4 rows of Yankee fans got out of the way for Jeter to catch a foul ball. I'm sorry, my team hasn't won a world series since 1908. I won't just get over it.

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a huge mistake on the part of Intertops. I am a corporate lawyer (but not a litigator) and I think it is a close case if it went to a judge.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not quite sure how it would get before a judge. If an American court chose to entertain the case, the player would lose since gambling debts are unenforceable in most (or all) states. But even if the player somehow won in an American court, I would imagine that Intertops has made itself relatively judgment-proof by keeping its assets in Antigua and Barbuda. And the Antiguan court would be unlikely to enforce an American judgment, unless Intertops entered an appearance in the American court.

I don't know anything about the Antiguan legal system, but if it's similar to Canada and the U.S., the case could get before an Antiguan court on a judicial review of a decision by the Directorate of Offshore Gaming.

[ QUOTE ]
Sure they had the clause, but by accepting the full bet did that act as a waiver of that clause?

[/ QUOTE ]
The story I linked to at the top of this thread suggested that the player received a ticket which expressly stated that he stood to win $137K. If true, that has to override the fine print, in my opinion.

[Bob T.]

In the casino I work in, win or lose, the amount over the table limit is pushed back.

[La Brujita]

I wan't meaning to imply it would get before a judge. It seems possible/likely it would go to some kind of arbitration in the place of jurisdiction.

I was just giving my two cents of the merits of the claim under the law I know best.

If they sent the ticket they should be held to it IMO.

[Homer]

Maybe you guys missed my part about Alex Gonzalez.

Not at all.

Is it Bartman's fault? No. Did he do something wrong? Yes.

So he did something wrong, but it's not his fault. That doesn't make sense.

Take a look at how 4 rows of Yankee fans got out of the way for Jeter to catch a foul ball.

That's a once in a lifetime, stars are alligned event. I find it hard to believe that if a foul ball were coming towards you, you wouldn't reach up/out to catch it. It is instinctual. Take a look at the Bartman video again. There are no less than four people reaching out to catch the ball. It just so happened he was the unlucky one who touched it. Also, Alou didn't help matters by flipping out as he did.

I'm sorry, my team hasn't won a world series since 1908. I won't just get over it.

No need to get over the loss. I was referring to the fact that you should stop scapegoating Bartman. It really sucks that the guy is a diehard Cubs fan, didn't do anything wrong, and got cursed at by other fans and basically run out of town. Everyone who goes around calling him Steve "[censored]" Bartman should feel incredibly guilty. I'm a diehard sports fan, but in the end, it's just a game. No one deserves such abuse over simply touching a foul ball at a baseball game.

As for the 1908 thing, I know how you feel but am not terribly sympathetic, being that I'm from Philly, the four-sport city that has gone the longest without winning a title of any kind (1983, Sixers).

-- Homer

[Your Mom]

When I said Bartman did something wrong but it wasn't his fault, I meant that he contributed to the loss but wasn't the main cause of it. Clearly, the Cubs fell apart after the Bartman incident. All the sudden, Prior couldn't get anyone out, then Gonzo booted the ball, then Farnsworth couldn't get anyone out, and on and on it went.

I clearly would never spit or curse at Bartman or try to help run him out of town. On the other hand, I would instinctively get the hell out of the way if a foul ball came my way and my team was trying to catch it. I blame all those fans who reached out for the ball. In an earlier game in the playoffs (not sure if it was against the Braves or against the Marlins) a Cub fan got in the way of Damien Miller catching a foul pop up. Miller was pissed and the whole crowd booed the fan. It seemed that we Cub fans didn't learn. Apparently, Yankee fans are smarter than us as a whole.

[CrackerZack]

[ QUOTE ]
Apparently, Yankee fans are smarter than us as a whole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I'd like to think so. /images/graemlins/wink.gif