An interesting hand

Playing a little 3-6-12 kill.


I pick up Aces in mid position and open raise after two limpers. The button, blinds, and the two limpers call.


Flop is KJ7 with 2 diamonds. I bet out and get the two early position limpers to call.


The turn is a small diamond. I bet out and get checkraised by the first limper. The second limper folds. She's representing a flush of course, but I feel there's something wrong. From my (short) experience of playing with her, it appears to me that she would have bet out if she hit the flush. A checkraise is indication that she wants me to fold. I raise to 18. She calls and blind bets the river all-in.


Comments? Results to follow.

Did you look at her stack while playing this hand? It looks like she had just decided to go all in on this hand. A lot of people when really low on chips want to just end it with ANY decent hand so you don't have to be quite as worrried about the flush as normal.


Paul Talbot

If you have such a read then trust it. However, that doesn't mean you should 3-bet since she is likely raising with 2-pair. Call and pay it off is usually better since you will have a difficult time betting your OBVIOUS over-pair on the river.


- Louie

Do you have the Ace of diamonds in your hand? If so, maybe I could see the case for 3-betting on the turn with the thought process being that you are trying to save $6 for the river if you don't hit the 4th diamond on board. She would then presumably just call your 3-bet and check the river to you. She should reasonably fear something like KK or AdQd from you.


In a typical LL game, I think you are beat here. Unless she is really horrible, or on tilt, she presumably heard your pre-flop raise, right? She has limped in from early position, which should in most cases indicate some sort of decent hand. I would have appreciated knowing which cards on board were diamonds. For example, maybe she has something like KdQs, and is check-raising you to put some pressure on. Her thinking maybe is something like, " well, if the fourth diamond hits, my King high flush is possibly good, and I'm going to call the river anyway, so maybe a check-raise now will enable me to check/call the river and save $6 myself if a blank comes, or maybe even make this guy lay down something like the black AA"


If you have the Ad in your hand, 3-betting the turn is possibly, maybe probably OK. If a blank comes on the river, check if she checks and show it down. Obviously you bet if the 4th diamond comes not pairing the board. If you don't have the Ad, just call the checkraise, and if she gives you the $12 shot on the river and you don't improve, you can probably safely fold IMO, or maybe make a crying call, but don't expect to win more than 20%of the time against typical opponents.


If she's capable of making a play on you with something like the KdQs I talked about, you are in way too tough a game for $3-6!

It's a pet peeve of many forumites when you don't post important details such as the suits of your cards and flop.


"From my (short) experience of playing with her, it appears to me that she would have bet out if she hit the flush. A checkraise is indication that she wants me to fold."


Excellent that you are paying attention. These things come in handy in the most unexpected times.


"I raise to 18."


What for?


Remember you are risking a reraise, so if she has a very strong hand you risk being 4-bet. If you have the A-d then this is unlikely.


If she is on a complete bluff (probably unlikely here) then you lose money by reraising. If you just call she will likely bet into you again and you make more money (I call this "pulling a Mason").


If she has two pair or better than you are simply losing money.


If she is on a semi-bluff of some kind you are perhaps making a nice fraction of a big bet. Remember she can hit too, and also if she misses she might again bet into you.


Of course you don't know exactly what she has. I believe for a turn reraise to be correct with a medium hand the following conditions have to be true:


- there should be a reasonable chance you will have a very strong hand on the river (some sort of possible improvement), otherwise you should just call (or even fold).


- you're not sure if you have the best hand right now, and by reraising she will check a better hand to you on the river.


In other words, you have to know your player. In an normal $3-6 game I might reraise here if I'm unsure of where I'm at and SURE that the other player will check (a possible better hand) to me on the river. Perhaps in $3-6-12 it is worth taking a crack at a free showdown more often.


In your case it didn't work as she bet into you again anyways.


What I find really neat is that you can have the identical hand occur, and you can do anything from a FOLD to RERAISE or just CALL and it all depends on the player you are involved with.

The one thing I didn't notice was how short her stack was. She'd been sort of hiding her stack behind her hands the whole session.


On the turn I felt sure she had KQ with Qd and thought a raise to 18 would now get her to fold or buy me a free showdown (remember the 12-bet on the river). Of course, I can get no laydown or free showdown when she's going all-in.


She turned over KJ to take down the pot.


I had black Aces btw.

Posted by Dunc:

If she's capable of making a play on you with something like the KdQs I talked about, you are in way too tough a game for $3-6!


In Calgary 3-6-12, yes you occasionally get the totally clueless player. Maybe two. The main edge you get against a Calgary 3-6-12 player is that they play too loose preflop, and that they chase gutshots with somewhat bad pot odds, and that they pay off too often.


In Edmonton your main edge is that opponents will play on with no pair, no draw on the flop. Especially at the Baccarat.