Pocket kings: rate my play on a scale of zero to infinity

[Nate tha' Great]

CO in this hand is a loose aggressive, raising 30% of the time before the flop, but calming down considerably on future streets. Button is even looser but considerably more passive.

Party Poker 5/10 (6 handed)
NateThaGreat has K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif and is BB

CO raises, Button calls, SB folds, NateThaGreat 3-bets, CO caps, Button calls, NateThaGreat calls

Flop(12 2/5 SB): 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

NateThaGreat checks, CO checks, Button bets, NateThaGreat raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, NateThaGreat caps, CO calls, Button calls

Turn(12 1/5 BB): 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif

NateThaGreat bets, CO calls(all-in), Button raises, NateThaGreat calls

River(17 BB): 3/images/graemlins/club.gif

NateThaGreat checks, Button bets, NateThaGreat calls

[Bubmack]

Party Poker 5/10 (6 handed)
NateThaGreat has K, K and is BB


CO raises, Button calls, SB folds, NateThaGreat 3-bets, CO caps, Button calls, NateThaGreat calls

A+



Flop(12 2/5 SB): 2, 2, 7

NateThaGreat checks, CO checks, Button bets, NateThaGreat raises, CO calls, Button 3-bets, NateThaGreat caps, CO calls, Button calls

C-...Dont checkraise here. You are a significant favorite...and you are going to put two bets to the cutoff to call cold...he will fold most hands in this spot. You have now put everyone on notice that you have a huge holding. Just bet out...you will probably get raised by the button...then reraise it and be prepared for the cap. I think you usually will decrease the amount of money going in the pot with this checkraise when you were getting MUCH the best of it. You were lucky in that the button obliged by reraising and the Cutoff...called too. Its nice to start a raising war when you have someone in the middle calling...so bet out to encourage that -EV call.



Turn(12 1/5 BB): 8

NateThaGreat bets, CO calls(all-in), Button raises, NateThaGreat calls

A - You said he was very passive and loose..so I think you played this properly.



River(17 BB): 3

NateThaGreat checks, Button bets, NateThaGreat calls

Same as the turn.

Bubs

[JTG51]

I give you a 1,293,237.

I know that's infinitely far from infinity so it must not sound like a very good score, but it falls in the 'you played it fine' range.

[JTG51]

Dont checkraise here. You are a significant favorite...and you are going to put two bets to the cutoff to call cold...he will fold most hands in this spot.

That's a good thing. CO's most likely hand when he checks the flop is a big Ace. The pot is big enough that Nate would like him to fold that hand.

If he does have a pair he'll almost always call the check raise, which is also a good thing.

[Bubmack]

You want him to call if you suspect the button to reraise.

He is about 11-1 if he is drawing at the ace. My initial thought was that the button would raise and then Nate could reraise ...putting two more bets cold to the CO. In that situation...It would build the pot and simultaneously put the cutoff in a situation where it would be -EV to call.

I guess it just depends on if you think your bet would go through unraised.
Bubs

[JTG51]

You want him to call if you suspect the button to reraise.

Why would he suspect the button is going to raise the flop? All the button had done to that point was call a bunch of bets before the flop.

He is about 11-1 if he is drawing at the ace.

It's actually a little worse than 14-1.

[Bubmack]

yea..hehe I had counted the ace as 4 outs..dont know what I was thinking.

Well really I suspect the hand to be raised by someone so I am betting ready to three bet instead of checkraising for two bets.

[JTG51]

but as to the raise...that is usually how I see the hand play out. If someone caps the hand and the three bettor bets out the flop...I almost always see the button raise...

The button didn't cap preflop, the CO did.

[Nate tha' Great]

Button took down the hand with sevens over deuces.

CO had A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.

I checked the flop because I thought it was a good one for me (no ace, and no apparent draws) and that CO was likely to bet anyway with an inferior hand, and that I could trap both he and the calling station Button for two bets that way. To his credit, he didn't bet, but I followed through with the c/raise, because I still thought that I was ahead. (I thought that Button had a middle pair or something and was pleased to see that we had both missed with our AK's, or what have you). I was more or less indifferent as to whether the CO called at that point or not.

The play that I think was a bit more questionable was the cap on the flop. 3-betting a check-raiser usually indicates a lot of strength. I think I felt okay about the bet because the cold calling CO gave me an overlay, but there were two other things that I should perhaps have considered:

1. Capping the flop more or less obligated me to bet out on the turn, and face a potential raise from the Button. So if I was behind, I'd wind up losing extra bets on both the flop and the turn.

2. The Button's profile. I began using pokertracker this weekend, which gives me a chance to look at my opponents' tendencies in a bit more detail. The typical party 6-max player has a VP$IP/PFR profile of around 38/11, e.g. very loose, and reasonably aggressive. I'm at around 25/12. The Button, on the other hand, is at 64/2 (!), which indicates that while he's extremely loose (which increases the likelihood that he has a hand that can beat mine), he isn't putting many bets in on his own without a very strong hand. If I'd had that profile in front of me at the time the hand was played, instead of having him pegged with the more generic description of "loose", I could have saved myself a couple of bets.

[devinthedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Button is even looser but considerably more passive.


[/ QUOTE ]
If this is true, I don't understand why you would't bet out on the flop hoping CO will raise. If the button is as loose-passive as you say, he won't bet, and if CO checks, you are just giving everybody a free card. If CO bets, button will call 1, and you will raise, making everybody call 1 more, which they will do, and you make the pot even bigger, so everyone will take one more off on the turn.

When you get 3-bet by a calling station, you should run away as fast as you can. If he is in fact a calling station, what else could he have besides 77, A2, or 22? I think the turn bet was horrible, given the situation.

I would have bet the flop hoping to get raised by the CO.

Given the action I would have check-called the turn and the river.

If the players were typical, I think your play throughout the hand was fine.

[JTG51]

...and if CO checks, you are just giving everybody a free card.

How often do you see someone cap preflop then check a ragged flop against two opponents? The CO will bet that flop almost every time.

I would have bet the flop hoping to get raised by the CO.

Why are you anxious to make the Button face two bets cold? He'll often have a hand like QJ that's drawing almost dead but that he'll call one bet at a time with on the flop.

[devinthedude]

JTG,

I think you made some good points. The fact that it is unlikely that the CO will check makes it even better to bet the flop hoping CO will raise.

The reason I want the button out of there is that if he does hold a small A. he is getting about 13-1 to call the bet, which is about a 15-1 shot. The second time around he gets 17-1 to call. With the cap PF, I want to win this pot as soon as possible, and I don't want to give a lone ace the correct odds to draw out on me. If he wants to call two cold thats fine with me, much bigger mistake on his part.

How much are you going to gain by checkraising the flop anyway? 1BB? Maybe only .5BB, because you can still reraise the CO.

I'm not saying the cr/ing is definitely the wrong play, but with the player profiles give, betting out is better