River action vs dark bet

[Vehn]

Great $30/$60 with 3-5 really really weak spots, some mediocres, one good player on tilt, and worm33. Naturally, I'm stuck tons. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I pick up QhQc in MP and open raise. Awful loose passive calls to my left. BB calls. He is straightforward and pretty loose but not especially live post flop.

Flop: Tc 3h 2h

BB checks, I bet, MP calls, BB checkraises, I 3-bet, MP folds(!), BB 4-bets, I call.

Turn: 7s

BB checks, I bet, BB checkraises. I call and he bets the river dark. I am 100% done with the hand unless I catch a Q or the board pairs.

River: 7c

Who raises here? I am positive I was behind on the flop. I absolutely do not have to pay off a 3 bet.

[Gabe]

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He is straightforward and pretty loose

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He'd have to be very loose for you to bet the river. If he'd call your preflop raise with T2o, T3o, or 23o, you have a bet. If he'd only play these hands suited he's more likely flopped a set. So, check and call.

[Franchise (TTT)]

He wouldn't play this strong with JTh on the flop/turn? After putting you on overcards?

It hardly seems that he could have two pair on the flop, so you're either way behind a set, or you're playing top pair and a flush draw.

If you're positive it's the set, fold to the checkraise on the turn. Otherwise, the draw busted, and the T is still the top card on the board, keep calling.

Why are you looking for the board to pair on the turn? I think it's pretty doubtful he has two pair.

[worm33]

I have played with this player a ton in the past week or so, and when he puts in a bunch of bets on the flop like that obviously your probably behind. Hes not very creative, thus limiting the chance he has Jh10h Kh10h or Ah10h. And as loose as he is, especilay in his blinds I dont see him calling much with 10-3 etc for 2 pair. I really think the only hand that he would play that you could beat would be JJ. I ended up staying till 4 am, had 2 huge hands cracked by a person who shall remain nameless (but he wears a visor with his name on it.) Yep the game just kept getting better....

[Paluka]

Why would you raise this river when you still seem to think you are likely to be losing?

[Ulysses]

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Who raises here? I am positive I was behind on the flop. I absolutely do not have to pay off a 3 bet.

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Assuming your read is correct, even thinking about raising only makes sense if you think this guy will have T2, T3 or 32 as often as he'll have 22, 33, or TT. Since even the loosest 30-60 players don't usually call raises w/ T2 and T3, can't see how/why you would raise.

When did you become positive you were behind on the flop? On the flop? If so, don't bet the turn. The turn checkraise? If so, fold right there.

[hutz]

You seem to have narrowed your opponent's likely holding to two pair (because you hope the board pairs). As others have pointed out, it's very unlikely he holds two pairs unless he's an ATWD player. So, he's likely either putting a move on you or has you beaten with a set. If he's at least semi-rational you're not going to get any more chips out of him if he's making a move, so a raise seems like a poor play.

[Vehn]

When I was 4-bet on the flop I was 95% sure I was behind to either two pair or a set and was hoping that he had AhTh etc. When checkraised on the turn I was 100% sure. Thing is on the river I now beat any two pair hand he had on the flop, and its a lot easier for him to have flopped two pair than exactly a set, especially for a loose player, and he'll probably pay me off with T3 or T2. Of course if I had thought about it I would have concluded it was pretty unlikely he had T3/T2/32 even for a fairly loose player. Maybe I suck but I hate laying down an overpair on the turn when I know I'm behind to a non straight/flush/trips as I always have 8 outs to beat 2 pair. Meh.

Anyways I popped him like a retard and he thought for a while and just called with his pocket 3s like a sissy, and I eventually went from 2.5 racks of stuckage to 1.4 and then gave up and went home and kicked my cat.

[mosta]

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as I always have 8 outs to beat 2 pair.

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minus the four that fill him up.

[Ulysses]

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as I always have 8 outs to beat 2 pair.

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minus the four that fill him up.

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Turn: ABCD

Opponent has AB. Hero has XX.

3 Cs, 3 Ds, 2 Xs = 8 outs.