showing cards as a strategic device

[eastbay]

I've been watching some of the top 10 yearly tournament players play big multis on party, and one thing I've noticed is several of them selectively show cards.

This is something I've never done, as I always thought it best to give as little information as possible. But, maybe I'm missing some little extra edge here.

What are the basic ideas behind selectively showing cards? I often see people showing very strong hands after they win the blinds or don't get much action. I guess the point of this is build a "hot cards" image so that you can steal more effectively later?

Any ideas appreciated...

[Henke]

Since the idea in a tourney is to reduce your variance, you're very happy if your opponents are too tight. Enforcing that play by showing off your good cards when they fold is a good thing (tm).

[Guy McSucker]

If I am getting waaay more than my share of good preflop hands, and taking down a lot of pots uncontested, I sometimes show a few good hands. This is to prevent my opponents making the conclusion that I am stealing a lot, because I want to continue stealing, and I prefer them not to play back thank you very much! I suppose this is an exercise in image control. I like to be thought of as aggressive, since people more readily fold their small blind to you in that situation, and so on, but I don't want to be thought of as a maniac.

Some people show bluffs. This is not my idea of a good tournament move, since I find myself making more rubbish hands than monsters. I don't like people to think I am a bluffer, because I like to bluff...

Others show "tough folds". That's a disaster in my opinion, because it invites others to take shots at you. Again working on the theory that I will usually have some old rubbish, I don't want people betting at me.

Guy.

[Redhot_man]

[ QUOTE ]
I've been watching some of the top 10 yearly tournament players play big multis on party, and one thing I've noticed is several of them selectively show cards.

This is something I've never done, as I always thought it best to give as little information as possible. But, maybe I'm missing some little extra edge here.

What are the basic ideas behind selectively showing cards? I often see people showing very strong hands after they win the blinds or don't get much action. I guess the point of this is build a "hot cards" image so that you can steal more effectively later?

Any ideas appreciated...


[/ QUOTE ]
there are situations where i know i amde a player lay down a monstor on a bluff. If i think it will tilt him, Ill show my cards...

I also like to show weak hands int eh early rounds to give the illusion of being a loose player. In tournament poker, I want a loose image, but im usre others will disagree and perfer teh tight image.

[eMarkM]

I almost never show. I never show big bluffs, ever. I don't need anyone targeting me. I'll show Aces when I just win the blinds, or show my BB hand when it's folded to me and I have a big pair. I'll occasionally show down a strong hand, espeically if I've been stealing a bit. But it's pretty rare. Let'em keep guessing.

[t_perkin]

OK this will show off the fact that I have never played in a B+M poker room: (gambling is illegal in Iceland).

Say you are in the final stages of a tournament (say 4-6 players left) and you move all-in with AQs on the button, are you allowed to intentionally show your hand BEFORE all your opponents have acted?

My thinking is that in a tournament it is as you say, beneficial to reduce variance. As such, when you get to the final stages of a tournament and blinds are large compared stack sizes is it not benefical to take a hand uncontested even at a cost to (tournament chip) EV?

Obviously you both decrease your winnings when you have the best hand and massively increase your losses when you have the worst hand but is this ever a correct move? is it ever done?

thanks

Tim

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Online, there is no way to do it.

In live games, it is strictly against the rules, and you will be penalized if you show your cards in an attempt to prevent or create action. Similarly, you're not allowed, in most tourneys, to discuss your hand, or ask an opponent about his hand.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[cferejohn]

As Greg says, that move is definitely illegal. There is a move discussed in Super System that is kind of similar though. Player A goes all in, then player B shows his cards to player A to see his reaction before calling or folding. These days, this is at least a breach of ettiquite and possibly illegal, but I guess when Super System was written (late 70's, I believe), it was fairly common.

[t_perkin]

Ok thanks for that,

If it were allowed would it ever be a correct (statistically speaking) thing to do?

Tim

[cferejohn]

I used to always show when I won the blinds with a strong hand (JJ-AA, AK, AQ if the steal was in late position). Late in a tournament, blind stealing becomes very important, so it seemed to me a good idea to instill in my opponents the idea that I was raising with big hands.

I stopped when someone told me that they were keeping track of how many times I *wasn't* showing and that the number was high enough that they felt pretty confident that usually I had a weak hand.

Generally speaking, when I see someone showing strong hands when they take the blinds, I tend to think that they are in fact setting the table up for steals later, so I force myself to be *more* likely to come over the top of them on a raise.

Now I just try to keep track of what my image is if I've been at a table for a while. If I've shown down several big starting hands, I'll steal a little more. If I've laid down to someone coming over the top of me once or twice, I'll steal a little less (but still sometimes) and hope that someone tries it again when I raise with a big hand.

That doesn't really answer the "is it good or bad" question. Generally, "it depends" on whether the players you are playing with are going to a) notice that you are showing hands at all, b) if they do notice, think that you are mostly raising large hands or c) think one step ahead and think that if you are showing big hands you are probably stealing at other times (or setting up steals in later rounds). (Of course, you could think one step beyond *those* people by *not* stealing very often, and hoping they move in on you, but its pretty hard to read how many steps ahead people are thinking - especially online).

[tpir90036]

is it a tourney rule that you can't expose your hand even if the pot is heads-up? we are talking about this in our weekly game the other night and no one knew for sure...

-tpir

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Yes, in a tourney the outcome of a hand down to you and me still affects everybody else in the event, so even when heads-up, it is against the rules (in most events) for anybody to expose their cards before showdown.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Scooterdoo]

In heads-up play, or with a few people left and the blinds are large I will sometimes show my oponent a strong hand when he folds to me (and doesn't attempt a steal) to let him feel 'good' about his fold so that he doesn't second guess himself and perhaps he is more likely to fold again rather than think that maybe he blew it. In a similar fashion I'll often show my opponent a strong hand when he doesn't call a bet later on (say after the river) so that he again feels good about laying down his hand with the hope that he'll do it later on when I don't have anything and make a I similar bet at the pot.

In a B&M game (most of my B&M experience is cash ring games) I'll show a strong hand that I have bet strong pre-flop (say AK, JJ or QQ) that I have to lay down later when I don't get my board cards so that my opponents see that I really did bet strong cards and wasn't loose -- I want them to mostly think that I'm a tight player so that I can steal blinds and they continue to respect my raises.

I don't often show bluff hands that work. I have done it on occasion to piss people off and get them to play looser against me or get them to doubt themself and not play their regular game. This will often happen anyway when you go to a showdown with a weak preflop hand that you might have bet aggressively preflop or on a draw, but you hit and stayed until the showdown. The important point is that once your opponents see that you might be playing loose to be aware of this and perhaps tighten up a bit more than usual for a while since they will be looking for it in future hands.

[CrisBrown]

Hiya eastbay,

Like the others, I will sometimes show my cards if I've been run over by the deck with 2-3 big hands in a row, and I want to let them know I'm not betting crazy. I never show bluffs, because I don't want players gunning at me. I'll occasionally show (or tell) a tough laydown, but only when I'm certain I'm not being bluffed (e.g.: I'm the last to fold in a multi-way pot). When I play back at that same player later, he's likely to give me credit for a hand, as he saw me lay down a strong hand to him earlier.

In general, though, if you wanna see 'em, you gotta pay.

Cris