I tried that play again, ideal conditions too

[ZeeJustin]

The BB seems to play fairly tight, but has been 3 betting a little too much. I haven't played that many hands with him, but he does seem a little overagressive, but not out of line. I think this hand was the ideal situation to raise the flop check the turn and call the river.

Party Poker 10/20 (5 handed)
ZeeJustin has J/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif and is CO

UTG folds, ZeeJustin raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB 3-bets, ZeeJustin caps, BB calls

Flop(8 1/2 SB): 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, ZeeJustin bets, BB calls

Turn(5 1/4 BB): 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, ZeeJustin checks

River(5 1/4 BB): 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB bets, ZeeJustin calls


Results in white: <font color="white"> He had Qs 9s and I took it down </font>

[gonores]

Good play.

What do you do if you get checkraised on the flop?

[stripsqueez]

i would normally bet the turn - i suppose if you are confident that he will bet with anything on the river after you check the turn its not so bad although you gave him a free shot at a queen on the river

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[eugeneel]

You should never bet the turn here against most players unless they have a high % possibility of being on a draw. The reason for checking turn is to save money if he perhaps had a low king, or a qq but MOST IMPORTANTLY it is to induce bluffs with any other hand he would be holding (assuming he is not slowplaying trips, unlikely in this hand)

[ZeeJustin]

I agree with everything you said, except for one thing. You seem to imply that this play is bad if you know it's likely he has trips, but it actually saves money if he has trips, or at least gets you a showdown for the price you would have folded at.

If he has trips and you bet the turn, he's gonna check raise you. If you fold there, the 2 plays have equal EV, although here you don't get a showdown.

If he check raises the turn and you call him down, you lose 3 bets.

If he has trips and you check the turn but call the river bet, you see a showdown and only lose one bet.

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
You should never bet the turn here against most players unless they have a high % possibility of being on a draw. The reason for checking turn is to save money if he perhaps had a low king, or a qq but MOST IMPORTANTLY it is to induce bluffs with any other hand he would be holding (assuming he is not slowplaying trips, unlikely in this hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

this assumes you will induce a bluff from most players - its hard to imagine that he won't have some sort of draw - he had 3 queens this time - if he is happy to play Q9s this way he will likely pay the turn for any draw - paying the turn on this hand looks about as good to me as bluffing the river

i think you played it ok but this wouldnt be the best way a lot of the time

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Henke]

If he has less than 8 outs and would fold to a turn-bet if he didn't have a set or a K, then this play has greater EV than betting all the way (if the opponent will bluff on the end with nothing).

[chezlaw]

I really like this play.

The downside is not just the risk of getting outdrawn. It also cost you if he would have called your turn bet but would not have bluffed on the end - not as unlikely as it should be /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Henke]

The opponents usually will only call the turn bet if they are on a strong draw, or if they already have a made hand that's good, but in their mind not worth a raise (top pair, no kicker). The exception might be if the opponent has two overcards that include the ace. Then they might think you are bluffing and be prepared to call you down all the way with the naked A. However, since you have position, you can bet after he checked on the river. If he would then fold the A when he thinks you're bluffing, he's making a mistake.

[chezlaw]

There are loads of players who would call the turn with a small pair or any ace. Plenty who call with rubbish like Q9 as well.

[Henke]

I haven't played 10-20, so I may be wrong. But I kind of doubt that Q9 will call a turn bet here, hoping that the flop bettor capped preflop with J high.

[DaveB]

This player with Q9 may checkraise though, which will put you to a decision you don't really want. I think with a small pot and probably 3 outs to beat you checking against an aggressive player is a good play here.

[chezlaw]

I'm not disagreeing, I like the play here as well, particularly if the opponent might bluff raise.

I was responding to the general question of this type of play and think one of the things to consider is that your opponent might call with a trash hand and won't bluff the river.