Betting on the Come

Situation: A loose, relatively passive 6-12 game. Nine players.


I catch As 8s in middle position. Two limpers before me, I limp, cutoff, button, and both blinds limp in. Seven players, 3.5 BB. (I'll usually play Axs from almost any position in this game, since there are typically at least five people seeing the flop, and few pre-flop raises, unless they're coming from me.)


Flop comes with Qs Js 6h. Checked to me. I fire away with my four-flush. Cutoff raises, button folds, BB calls, player on my immediate right and I both call. Four players, 7.5 BB.


Turn card is 8c. It gets checked to me. Interesting. I'm now thinking I may have up to 14 outs; two 8s for the set with top kicker, 3 Aces to give me Aces-up, and the remaining nine spades for the flush. There's a straight possibility with 9-T, but I don't think the cutoff would have raised with a four-straight on the flop (at this point, I think he's probably betting AQ, KQ, QT, or QJ), and I would have expected the BB or player on my right to bet if they had hit it. (I'd played with both of them before, they're relatively straightforward players. Though if I had hit the nut straight and had two players who bet the flop remaining to act behind me, I'd probably go for the checkraise. Though maybe not with the spade draw out there.)


I went ahead and bet. This is point I'm concerned with. Should I have checked, hoping for a free card? I'll normally play aggressively if I have a good draw to the nuts, but with the raiser yet to act behind me, should I have deferred? It's likely that he'll bet if in fact he's playing top pair or top two; if he's on a draw, I have him beat. (Unless he specifically has KTs and hits the 9s, which is highly doubtful.)


Results to follow....

I would check on the turn. You're very likely to be raised again if he has a pair of queens or better, and if this happens you chase away all the customers you hope to have if you hit your hand. You are very likely behind in my opinion at this point.


Jeff

If you are tempted to bet the turn then you should have been tempted to 3-bet the flop with you nut flush-draw over-card against 3 opponents.


This is a bad raise if CO is sure to have a quality hand and will raise with it.


This is a good raise if CO is NOT sure to have a quality hand, could have raised on the come, will check the turn, AND whoever has a J will lay it down in the face of your "obvious" 2-pair or straight.


It doesn't matter if CO woun't raise but would bet if you check.


I'd usually bet.


- Louie

In hindsight, I think I should have checked to the CO, since he had raised the flop, and if he's on the come with something like a 4 str8 or K-high flush, my draw is better.


As I said, I bet since I thought I had picked up some additional outs. This is when the hand got ugly. CO raised. BB folds. Player on my right (POMR) re-raised. Now there's 13.5 BB in the pot, and I'm stuck. I'm getting 13.5 - 2 on my draw to the nuts, so I call, CO caps it, POMR calls. 19.5 BB in the pot. I think POMR and CO probably both have 9T (Especially when POMR says something along the lines of "I think we both have the nuts.")


River is another Q. POMR checks, I check, CO bets, POMR calls, I muck. CO shows QJ for the full house. I was surprised he capped it on the turn, but he wound up hitting perfect on the river. (POMR disgustedly showed 9T for the nuts on the turn.)


C'est le Poker