am i a sucker?

Loooose passive game (less than 10% of raisin) at the trop 5-10


I have 7-8c in middle pos. call after 1 poor limper and got 1 caller (a weak tight (WT)) plus the BB


4 players


flop 5h 9c Kh


bb and limper check to me


i bet


WT raise


bb and early limper fold


i call gettin 8:1 on a 5 outs draw...


i figure my implied odds are much better for 2 reasons:


I know the WT has either a big king or a set

AND

that he will surely bet the turn and prolly the river too whatever happens so ill be able to collect a few extra bet if i hit..


of course the turn was the 6 and i check call the turn and then check raise the river.


he called and when i showed him my hand, he said i was a lucky fish!!! (1st time someone ever said this to me lol)


So do u agree with him or no?


Ty for advice


Charlie

I think your pre-flop call is questionable. The 2 hearts on the flop probably aren't a problem, but that doesn't mean they should be entirely overlooked either. I don't think I'd have played the hand this way, but that doesn't make you a fish. An egg maybe... /images/smile.gif


~just kidding~ Good luck..

The call seems fine. However, you've gotten yourself in a tough spot already. imo, it's best to be careful and pick your spots with 78s and similar such hands. betting into that flop in a loose passive game is probably a bad idea. Unless you think you have a decent shot at picking it up right there, you're betting a gutshot draw which can run into trouble (flush) even if it hits. While getting into this situation seems like a losing proposition to me, the call on the flop raise is solid for the reasons you stated. Besides, if that rock liked his king so much, he should have raised with it preflop.


KB


PS- How are those Trop games these days? I play mostly 3/6, 5/10 at the Taj but not as much at Trop since there's less selection. (feel free to respond to email if you wish)

How did you come up with 8:1? With 4 players there are $22 in the pot assuming SB fold and that include your $5.


Flop u bet $5, WT raised, u called another $10. Cost u $15. Total pot= $52. Your odds 52:15 or less than 4:1.


You said WT may have a K or a set so you are waaayyyy behind.


I'm sorry to say but I agree with WT. You're a lucky fish at least on that deal. Be more discerning next time.

Ironwood,


In AC the 5/10 structure is 5 on the flop. A raise is just 5 more, not 10 more. I know in some places it's different.


Therefore we have pre-flop: $22-4 callers and sb.


flop--$22+$15 (money already in pot when decision is made to call or fold to the raise) 37:5, much closer to 8:1 pot odds.


IMO, that call is OK(on its own), but only because he got into trouble before that. However, i agree that this whole situation is a fishy one to be in.


kb

It is true that theres less games at the trop


i was there at 330 am on saturday and there was only a 3-6 a 5-10 and a 10-20 pot limit goin on...


So much for game selection...


At the taj same time there was 2 5-10 and a bunch of lower table


However, i hated the noise at the taj, the table are so dirty and the management was horrible (im speakin of 1 floor person. maybe the rest are good!!! i dunno!)


Charlie

your only a fish if ya play this way all the time. once in a while, , its a great advertising play. what would he put ya on for the next hour when ya call. yeh ya got lucky, but if capitalized on, the move proves beneficial later on. he may call your strong hands from then on. players who never play this give up too much info. again, use very sparingly. like the line in the cincinatti kid at the end, which the guy hits about a 45 to 1 shot....sometimes the right move is the wrong one. if it put the guy on tilt enough to overcall afterward, even better.


b

kb,


Preflop is $22. Hero bets, pot = $27; WT raises, pot = $37; hero calls, pot = $47. My mistake it is not $52. So hero bet $15 in a $47 pot making his odds much worse. Or am I still missing something? Dont want to beat a dead horse but I just want to clear this up. Thanks for the input.

'Preflop is $22. Hero bets, pot = $27; WT raises, pot = $37; hero calls, pot = $47. My mistake it is not $52. So hero bet $15 in

a $47 pot making his odds much worse. Or am I still missing something? Dont want to beat a dead horse but I just want to clear this up.'


Preflop=$22

Hero Bets=$5.....$22+$5=$27

WT Raises=$5+$5=$10......$27+$10=$37

Hero calls=$5....$37+$5=$42


Hero bet $5 plus the call of the raise is $5...$5+$5=$10


Doesn't look like the odds are very good to me.42/10


jazzman

WHew


When im speakin about odds, its in regard of my decision to call or not WT raise. The money ive already put in the pot HAS NO importance...


I think its the kind of play u need to do from time to time... IF not, u look too predictable, even to loose passive player!!!


also, it is even more powerful when the players who checked b4 u are not check raisers... odds they have nuttin are higher.


If theres $22 in the pot and youre call by 1 of your opponent less than 80% of the time, u just cant lose money here long term!!


Charlie

Bad call preflop you not getting odds to call. It could get raised behind you as well.


The rest of the hand is ok.

Well, yes and no.


You had a weak call pre-flop, with only one limper, but if the game was loose passive you only had a fairly weak call. In middle position, I would fold with only one limper.


On the flop, I can't see where you had 5 outs. You needed a six, and there are only four of them in the deck. Plus, there were two hearts, so the raiser might have been raising on a flush draw, which would negate one of your outs. If he has a flush draw, he is still likely ahead of you anyway, because he probably has you high carded if neither of you has a pair. You did have a backdoor flush draw, perhaps you were counting that as one out, which some people do. If so, I can see where your 5 outs came from. I think it adds little to your hand heads up though.


Once you get lucky on the turn, it's a no brainer, except that by checking the turn, you might give him a free card if he was raising on a flush draw. Now I realize that many players who think about the game wouldn't raise a flush draw in his position, because they would likely drive out the remaining players, but many players automatically raise a flush draw without thinking about things like that, so you can't discount that he may have been doing that.


Dave in Cali