Making the right play costs pot? / Respect

Last night I made the right play and it cost me a pot. I was in the SB with KQo. A fairly tight player (TP), 2nd UTG, raised one limper. Three more called and I folded. I was out of position, and when that particular player raised, especially after a limper entered the pot, I knew he had to have at least AQo as a minimum hand. I was dominated if he had ANY of his minimum raising standards for that situation, except for possibly JJ. It was a clear fold, and anyone who doesn't think so is misguided, IMO. Even on the button, I still would have folded for fear of domination.


The flop was Q high rainbow rags. TP bet and two called. The turn was more trash of a fourth suit. TP checked, the next checked, and the button bet, TP folded, checker called. River a ten. check, bet, call. Button had Q6o and won with a pair of queens. Other player didn't show.


So I made the right play and it cost me a pot. Or did it? Did it REALLY cost me a pot? or is there another way of looking at it? I think so. If I were to play that exact same situation an infinite number of times, I would have the following situations to deal with...


1. I would miss the flop. This would usually wind up with my folding. This costs me two small bets.

2. I would catch a king. This would usually wind up with my losing the maximum amount I could in this situation. Out of position with an apparently strong, but in reality, badly dominated hand. Devastating on your chip count.

3. I would occasionally catch a queen. I might even win the pot a good deal of the time that this happens, but I would still lose more from the first two possibilities by far.

4. I would flop a good draw, like an open-ender. Not a possibility that will occur that often.

5. I would flop a strong hand like two pair, but even then, when you have two pair and they are both broadway, you know the chance of a straight draw is out there.

6. other rare situations not worth detailing here.


So in this situation, give the TP the proper respect and just fold. You can't play KQo profitably against a raise from a solid player with typical raising standards. Most solid players require at LEAST AJo to raise first in, and few will raise a limper with less than AQ. A hand in Hold'em only has RELATIVE value to the other hands in the pot, despite how pretty it might look at the time.


Dave in Cali

This is a situation where you can't be results oriented. If you second guess yourself in situations like these you will more then likely end up calling hands such as this that you shouldn't. And in the long run, it will cost you money, a lot of money. Don't pay attention to the results of that particular hand. You made the correct decision. Next hand.


Rat

"You can't play KQo profitably against a raise from a solid player with typical raising standards. "


This is the key statement in an excellent post, with the critical phrase being "solid player".


Against a solid player, even one who raises up front with medium pairs from time to time, this is a definite fold.


Against truly loose aggressive types, however, it can frequently be a 3-betting hand when you have position on the loose raiser. Isolating this type of player with raises preflop and with good seat selection can be an important source of profit.

I seem to be blessed with a unique "skill": I cannot remember my cards unless I look 3-4 times. So I rarely say "dang, I had that".


I think it was Goren who said (of bridge):"it is understood that the right play will often lose when the wrong play would win. Never-the-less, its still the right play".

"Against truly loose aggressive types, however, it can frequently be a 3-betting hand when you have position on the loose raiser. Isolating this type of player with raises preflop and with good seat selection can be an important source of profit. "


Clarkmeister, you just went up one notch in your standing on the forum by making this statement. It is SO true. Against a LAG player, three betting with position with KQo is perfectly reasonable, and I might even three bet with slightly less some of the time.


Dave in Cali