I like to make this play a lot. Is this standard?

[ZeeJustin]

Party Poker 10/20 (6 handed)
ZeeJustin has 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is CO

UTG limps, UTG+1 folds, ZeeJustin raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls

Flop(5 1/2 SB): Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG bets, ZeeJustin raises, UTG calls

Turn(4 3/4 BB): 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG checks, ZeeJustin checks

River(4 3/4 BB): 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

UTG bets, ZeeJustin calls

Results in white: <font color="white"> UTG has A3o, I take it down </font>

The idea here is to raise the flop but to not bet the turn because better hands will check raise and worse hands will fold. If you check the turn, you also have the added bonus of inducing a bluff on the river. I'm guessing this is standard, but I thought I'd share it anyways.

[Boopotts]

If you think your hand will be the best at the showdown about 40% of the time, then it's fine. The real question is this: How often will he bluff the river? The closer that answer is to 100%, the better this play becomes. The farther away from 100% the worse it becomes, since you'll end up paying off far more often then you'll be collecting.

The better question, I think, would be to ask yourself if you have the best hand on the flop. If you think you do, I'd raise the turn and check the river. This gets the most money into the pot when he's semi-bluffing (or bluffing), and allows you to show down for 1 sb more than your method.

Also, your concerns re: being check-raised by a better hand on the turn are largely irrelevent, since you really can't improve. So he check raises with a Q- so what? If you're sure he's check-raising with a better hand, then muck (note that the situation is different if you're holding something like AK, since this hand will improve 3 times as often as the 8's, and for 'showdown purposes' on this flop they're about the same hand).

Anyway, the decision on whether or not to raise the flop and check the turn, or call the flop and raise the turn, hinges on how often your opponent will bluff the river- and, by extension, how often he bets the flop with nothing (or something like A high). Once you've assigned a reasonable probability to these factors, the rest should fall into place.

[DaveB]

I actually like to usually bet the turn and check behind on the river. This way I charge any draws the most and it usually costs the same when I am (slightly) behind.

[Ulysses]

Bet the turn. Check the river.

[zamora]

i have played some hands with you Zee, and you are clearly a better player than me. and i also make this play on occasion.
but i think that the default play here should be to bet the turn and check down the river. that way you might loose a nine (depending on the player), and you give the overcards a chance to fold.

a good player would appreciate the free cards you are giving out but i doubt that anybody would bet or call the river with less then say AJ since you were the preflop raiser and must have something (ok, u could have KJ).

there are two good articles on pokerpages about playing overcards shorthanded. if your opponent played his overcards right, he could make a small profit from these situations.

but the again, there is a lot of nuts out there that bets everytime checked to. so maybe this play is a killer.

[naphand]

Can you post the links for these articles, please.

[anatta]

Checking the turn here in these aggressive short games isn't that bad. If you sense you might get checkraised by JT or a gutshot or as a pure bluff, then I would check here since you should probably fold if check-raised.

The cost is a free card which can cost you the pot and maybe he folds a better hand (heh). The benefit is you might get him to call or bluff the river where he would fold the turn, and you lose less if he would call the turn and does improve to beat you. Also, if you fold to a turn check-raise you can't hit a miracle set.

Generally, bet the turn, but sometimes checking is better. Figuring it out is sometimes hard.

[zamora]

part I (http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/jason-pohl16.htm) and part II (http://www.pokerpages.com/articles/archives/jason-pohl17.htm)

[wontons]

I agree.. Although ur play worked very well..with inducing the bluff and all...you can make a confident bet on the turn and if they checkraise you can comfortably fold..if you bet on the turn and get called you will most likely get a free showdown on the river.

[daryn]

i don't know if this play should be standard or not, but i was surprised by the results..

[ZeeJustin]

Thanks for the feedback all. I should point out one other advantage to this play. It gives your opponent a chance to make a mistake, while giving you very little room to screw up. You don't need to risk folding to a tricky player check raising a draw on the turn, etc. Also, I generally do this with hands that are hard to play, i.e 88 heads up on a flop with 2 overcards.

Also, I think you underestimate the frequency of him bluffing the river. My flop raise means nothing since I raised preflop, so people tend to think the turn check means I'm on a draw (which must have missed since a 2 rivered) or I have a weak hand he can push me off of with a river bet.

I should also clarify when I say "a lot". I probably make this play around once or twice a day, and I play 400-1500 hands in a typical day. So far, the results have seemed to be good. I'll try to post another hand where I make this play, regardless of whether or not it turns out for the best.