Do you find this paragraph in CardPlayer annoying?

[Ulysses]

CardPlayer article on Paul Phillips (http://www.cardplayer.com/?sec=afeature&art_id=13792)

In the pre-tournament interview, Paul was asked to name his favorite hand. He answered “two sevens,” since that hand won him a key pot at The Bicycle Casino against legendary poker great T.J. Cloutier. In an amazing feat of irony, Paul ended up winning this tournament with precisely that hand.

I presume that was written by someone who fancies himself a writer.

[Vehn]

Its not ironic at all.

[Wake up CALL]

[ QUOTE ]
Its not ironic at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it is a near perfect usage of the word irony.

Irony: incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result

Who would have thought before the tournament started that Paul's favorite hand would later win the tournament about to begin?

I agree the hyperbole calling this an amazing feat of irony could have been expressed much better.

[hutz]

Regardless, I'm not sure I would describe something ironic happening as a "feat."

[Ulysses]

Actually it is a near perfect usage of the word irony.

Nope. You're making the same mistake many people do. Just because something is unusual or unexpected does not make it ironic. Or, as Alanis Morrissette should have been told, just because something sucks does not make it ironic.

irony != coincidence

It would have been quite ironic had Paul busted out of the tourney w/ two sevens after that interview. But his winning with that hand is merely a coincidence, albeit a quite unlikely one.

Here's a Usage Note (from dictionary.com) to explain the distincton in more detail:

Usage Note: The words ironic, irony, and ironically are sometimes used of events and circumstances that might better be described as simply “coincidental” or “improbable,” in that they suggest no particular lessons about human vanity or folly. Thus 78 percent of the Usage Panel rejects the use of ironically in the sentence In 1969 Susie moved from Ithaca to California where she met her husband-to-be, who, ironically, also came from upstate New York. Some Panelists noted that this particular usage might be acceptable if Susie had in fact moved to California in order to find a husband, in which case the story could be taken as exemplifying the folly of supposing that we can know what fate has in store for us. By contrast, 73 percent accepted the sentence Ironically, even as the government was fulminating against American policy, American jeans and videocassettes were the hottest items in the stalls of the market, where the incongruity can be seen as an example of human inconsistency.

[Wake up CALL]

Thanks for the explanation Ulysses. However I was looking at the matter from the perspective that (when dealt them) Paul fully expected to win the tourney with his pocket sevens again and did. Does this not make it ironic or am I still all confused?

[Rushmore]

It is coincidental, but not ironic. In fact, the scenario is virtually the opposite of irony.

Had he said, "Well, I won the last tournament with two sevens, but let's face it--a hand is a hand is a hand...," and THEN won with two sevens, well, THAT would have been ironic.

So, to recap: People confuse coincidence with irony. The opening sequence of Magnolia (Thorn, Berry, and Hill), for instance, is coincidence, not irony. The scene where Bill Macy's character falls and smashes all of his teeth out of his head in an effort to steal money for cosmetic dental surgery which he does not need...well, that's irony.

[Wake up CALL]

Thanks Rushmore I now understand the difference although I am likely to confuse it again in the future. Now would it be ironic if I made the same mistake again or only if I did not? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Diplomat]

I also did not know that irony was a feat that could be achieved.

-Diplomat

[TimTimSalabim]

Irony would be if his favorite hand *lost* him the tournament. Or better yet, if TJ had held the pair of sevens and knocked him out with them. At least, that's how I understand the word.

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
I presume that was written by someone who fancies himself a writer.

[/ QUOTE ]

*sigh* Lawyers...

(and it's "herself", I think)

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
*sigh* Lawyers...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawyers? I don't get it.

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
*sigh* Lawyers...

[/ QUOTE ]

Lawyers? I don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC, Allyn Jaffrey = Atty20Yrs, both on RGP and PartyPoker.

[daryn]

ha... a poker player with a name like Allyn... now that's ironic! wait... no it isn't /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Ted Geisel]

She writes much worse than this in the legal field. Her "legal" articles in Card Player are real half-baked gibberish ... especially when she starts in on legislative analysis.

Ted

[Softrock]

U - I agree with you but was actually more interested in the concept of performing a feat of irony. Can that be done?
What about something that is indeed ironic would make it a feat that could be performed?

The fact that someone would think that he/she could perform a feat of irony strikes me as...well, ironic!

(And on that note I'm going to bed because this has gotten much too heavy).

[J_V]

You beat me to the Alanis Morrisette jab. Damn you Ulysses.

[all_aces]

I once heard a comic ripping her song "Isn't it Ironic" to shreds. It was hilarious. A highlight:

"The line, 'it's like a traffic jam, when you're already late'... that not ironic. That's just poor planning and bad luck. Now, it would be ironic if you were a city planner, on your way to a meeting with other city planners to discuss the traffic problem in your city. That would be ironic."

I'm not fully convinced that it would indeed be ironic if this were the case, though. Any thoughts? There's a fine line between irony and coincedence. It was still funny tho.

Regards,
all_aces

[Cosimo]

No, the deal with the traffic planners would be fitting; neither irony nor poetic justice.

It would be ironic if a city planner, on the way to a meeting to discuss the success of his attempts to alleviate traffic problems, got stuck in a traffic jam.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

What would've been truly ironic would be him busting out overplaying that hand, or being eliminated by a player who held that hand.

[rigoletto]

The instruction said: keep 3 ft. separated from object while working the machine!


http://www.makeup-fx.com/images/gelatine%20feet%2001.jpg

[MMMMMM]

"In an amazing feat of irony..."

Yes, Irony has accomplished many amazing feats throughout the ages, hasn't she?

[StevieG]

[ QUOTE ]
No, the deal with the traffic planners would be fitting; neither irony nor poetic justice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. Now if their funding was cut because they were late getting to a meeting discussing the merits of their work...that's a different story.

The irony thing is definitely a pet peeve. Up there with peruse being used as its antonym, and fortuitous being used as fortunate.

[Diplomat]

That's totally gross dude.

-Diplomat

[John Cole]

In Pyscho, Marion Crane (Janet Leigh) is awoken by a police officer after having spent the night sleeping in her car. He tells her that practice is unsafe and she should check into a motel next time. That night she finds the Bates place. Of course, we only appreciate the irony when we see the movie the second time.

[spike]

I heard an analysis once that in Fact Alanis has the last laugh on us.

Isn't it ironic, when a writer writes a whole song about irony, completely misunderstands the word but still makes millions in the process.

[Zetack]

[ QUOTE ]
"In an amazing feat of irony..."

Yes, Irony has accomplished many amazing feats throughout the ages, hasn't she?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh.... IRONY ...I thought he said an amazing feat of ironing.... I didn't think that made much sense...

--Zetack

[Oski]

A good example of irony is "The Gift of the Magi."

BTW: The o.p. has caused me to lend a more careful ear to misuse of irony: Before the CAL basketball game, the announcers were dicussing how good CAL's recruiting class was, and "ironically, three of them are from Northern California." Thanks to Ulysses, I know better.

[MMMMMM]

Another good example of irony is: Cyrus !

And since Cyrus spends most of his time over on the OT forum, he may never even know it! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ok, Cyrus...I guess I owe both you and Rounder a beer now---but you may never even know that, either! Hahahahahahahahaha!

[Zeno]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you find this paragraph in CardPlayer annoying?


[/ QUOTE ]

Not at all. It is exactly what I expect from CardPlayer.

-Zeno

[MicroBob]

I find this thread to be a most amazing feat of coincidence because just earlier this week i had finally decided on a signature of which i am most proud.

[Drunk Bob]

no

[ramjam]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">En réponse à:</font><hr />
U - I agree with you but was actually more interested in the concept of performing a feat of irony. Can that be done?
What about something that is indeed ironic would make it a feat that could be performed?

The fact that someone would think that he/she could perform a feat of irony strikes me as...well, ironic!


[/ QUOTE ]

Err, I think I agree. One can perform a feat (which I take to mean an action other than an expression of thought) that is ironic but one cannot have intended it to be ironic since then it would not have been ironic - hence, the phrase is itself laced with irony. However, whether this latter irony is of the type that derives from the writer's unawareness of their inherent contradiction or the type that comes from their knowing use of it is unclear.

[MicroBob]

as i sarcastically alluded to in my previous post....i beleive saying 'an amazing feat of irony' is roughly as improper as saying 'an amzing feat of coincidence' (we did determine that they were opposites, correct??).

and to answer the original question....Yes, i do find the paragraph annoying. in fact, i find many of the paragraphs in cardplayer to be annoying.....but a significant percentage of those come from Sexton's 'Hey, Have you heard about how great the WPT is?' articles and Hellmuth's 'I'm a moron and let me tell you why' articles.