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andyfox
01-21-2004, 03:28 AM
Two interesting articles about Iraq are in the January/February edition of Atlantic magazine.

The first is by James Fallows. He says the U.S. occupation of Iraq is a debacle not because the government did no planning but because a vast amount of expert planning was willfully ignored by the people in charge. Almost everything, good and bad, that has happened in Iraq since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime was the subject of extensive pre-war discussion and analysis. The problems the U.S. has encountered are precisely the ones its own expert agencies warned against.

But because detailed planning for the post-war situation meant facing costs and potential problems, it weakened the case for a "war of choice," and was seen by the war's proponents as an "antiwar" undertaking. Rumsfeld, for example, forbade DOD people from attending CIA war-game sessions.

Such thinking led to statements like this one, from Paul Wolfowitz to the House Budget Committee: "It's hard to conceive that it would take more forces to provide stability in post-Saddam Iraq than it would to conduct the war itself and to secure the surrender of Sadam's security forces and his army. Hard to imagine."

Fallows attributes the problems to three factors: the panache of Rumsfeld; the triumphalism of the administration, and the preference of the president for large choices and avoidance of details.

The second article is by Kenneth M. Pollack and concerns the intelligence failures and the administration's handling of intelligence. Many administration officials reacted negatively when presented with information or analysis that contradicted their preconceived notions of Iraq. They gave greatest credence only to accounts that presented the most lurid picture of Iraqi activities. Administration officials even set up shop in the Pentagon to cherry-pick the information they wanted, selecting information that trained intelligence officers considered unreliable or downright false (for example, the connection between Hussein and al-Qadea.) It would then pass on this doubtful information straight to Cabinet meetings as gospel. The administration was wrong about Iraq's WMDs because the intelligence was faulty and it chose to utilize the faultiest information available.

Very interesting reading for all you policy wonks out there.

Chris Alger
01-21-2004, 04:38 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Fallows attributes the problems to three factors: the panache of Rumsfeld; the triumphalism of the administration, and the preference of the president for large choices and avoidance of details.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like James Shallow. Bush prefers "large choices" and avoidance of details? Why can't Fallow just say that he's a simpleton at the mercy of his advisors and the quasi-public fiefdoms they represent?

It seems more likely that Chalabi's faction of former royalists convinced Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld some time ago to back them to the exclusion competitors, presumably with some sort of quid pro quo. State and the CIA prefer broader, more accountable institutions and organizations, hoping they produce a more stable and credible leadership who's less likely to have to call the cavalry to keep themselves in power or keep the country from breaking apart. As a result, Chalabi/Rumseld ignored or vetoed much of the prewar planning for postwar Iraq whenever it raised the spectre of power sharing. Makes more sense than saying "panache."

Al_Capone_Junior
01-21-2004, 09:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Administration officials even set up shop in the Pentagon to cherry-pick the information they wanted, selecting information that trained intelligence officers considered unreliable or downright false (for example, the connection between Hussein and al-Qadea.) It would then pass on this doubtful information straight to Cabinet meetings as gospel. The administration was wrong about Iraq's WMDs because the intelligence was faulty and it chose to utilize the faultiest information available.


[/ QUOTE ]

You make it sound as if ALL info regarding this subject was specifically chosen solely on its falseness, with no other criteria used, and all the info being completely false. Doubtful it really happened as stated in the quote.

al

Utah
01-21-2004, 09:40 AM
Why can't Fallow just say that he's a simpleton at the mercy of his advisors and the quasi-public fiefdoms they represent?

I still cant understand why you leftists think Bush is a Simpleton. Say what you will about his policies, I see no evidence that he is a simpleton. Also, where does it say that one must be a rocket scientist to be a great leader?

Utah
01-21-2004, 09:46 AM
He says the U.S. occupation of Iraq is a debacle

Wow, I guess it is in all how you define a debacle. The country is moving forward, the loss of life has been very low, the native are not restless, and the country has not descended into chaos.

Sounds like a lot of micromanaging to me. It reminds me of the same guys who said the invasion of the Taliban was a disaster and a quagmire - 2 days before their collapse and the same guys who said the invasion of Iraq was a disaster - 2 days before Saddams collapse (of course, that invasion turned out to be one of the greatest large scale military operations ever executed).

andyfox
01-21-2004, 02:11 PM
The author does not say all information was chosen because it was false, but rather that too much information was chosen because it suited the predetermined positions of those who chose it, and that information was ignored, desipte the fact that the intelligence services felt it was more trustworthy information, because it did not. That is, the information that fit in with what those in charge already "knew" was the only information utilized.

andyfox
01-21-2004, 02:19 PM
Fallows does hint at Bush being a simpleton. He says that when he (Fallows) conducted his inquiry, he was often told that "Cheney" wanted this, or "Rumsfeld" is pushing for that, or "Wolfowitz" says this. Never did he hear that Bush was behind something (and not Rice either, FWIW).

There is also discussion of intelligence mishandling due to the influence of Chalabi's group.

Yeah, panache seemed a strange word to me too. Rumsfeld never wanted to plan for the post-war because he claimed the future was "unknowable."