Big Pot for the lil_lady

A hand that occurred, as it turns out this is the biggest pot I have ever won and I would appreciate if I could get some comments. I realise that the results shouldn't influence the decision, but......


What I perceive about the key opponents?


SB - Very tight aggressive, has only shown down winners and quality starting hands.

BB - Plays tight, not sure how aggressive, shows down quality starting hands.

Loose - Plays marginal hands, bit of a calling station, has shown down second best cards many times.


Game #11107XXXX - $0.50/$1 Hold'em

Table "Tuvuca" (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button

Seat 1: [xx1] ($29.75 in chips)

Seat 2: [xx2] ($33 in chips)

Seat 3: [xx3] ($9.75 in chips)

Seat 4: [xx4] ($77.50 in chips)

Seat 5: [Loose] ($24 in chips)

Seat 6: [Cutoff me] ($49 in chips)

Seat 7: [Dealer] ($15.50 in chips)

Seat 8: [SB] ($124.50 in chips)

Seat 9: [BB] ($32.25 in chips)

Seat 10: [UTG] ($69 in chips)

[SB]: Post Small Blind ($0.25)

[BB] : Post Big Blind ($0.50)

Dealing...

Dealt to [Cutoff me] [ 7d ]

Dealt to [Cutoff me] [ 6d ]

[UTG]: Call ($0.50)

[xx1] : Call ($0.50)

[xx2] : Call ($0.50)

[xx3] : Fold

[xx4] : Fold

[Loose] : Call ($0.50)

[Cutoff me] : Call ($0.50)


5.5 small bets in pot, ample amount to call with 76s in late position


[Dealer] : Call ($0.50)

[SB]: Call ($0.25)

[BB] : Check

*** FLOP *** : [ 5c Kd 8h ]

[SB]: Bet ($0.50)

[BB] : Call ($0.50)

[UTG]: Fold

[xx1] : Call ($0.50)

[xx2] : Fold

[Loose] : Raise ($1)

[Cutoff me] : Call ($1)


[Loose] probably has Kx or two pair, good pot odds for drawing to my outside straight


[Dealer]: Fold

[SB]: Call ($0.50)

[BB] : Call ($0.50)

[xx1] : Call ($0.50)

*** TURN *** : [ 5c Kd 8h ] [ 4h ]

[SB]: Check

[BB] : Check

[xx1] : Check

[Loose] : Bet ($1)

[Cutoff me] : Call ($1)


Woohoo nut straight, don't want to bet to keep others in.


[SB]: Call ($1)

[BB] : Raise ($2)

[xx1] : Fold

[Loose] : Raise ($2)

[Cutoff me] : Call ($2)


Still wanna keep them in.


[SB]: Call ($2)

[BB] : Call ($1)

*** RIVER *** : [ 5c Kd 8h 4h ] [ Ad ]

[SB]: Check

[BB] : Bet ($1)

[Loose] : Call ($1)

[Cutoff me] : Raise ($2)


Heehaw the nuts, time to raise it.


[SB]: Fold

[BB] : Call ($1)

[Loose] : Call ($1)

*** SUMMARY ***

Pot: $26 | Rake: $1

Board: [ 5c Kd 8h 4h Ad ]

[xx1] lost $1.50 (folded)

[xx2] lost $0.50 (folded)

[xx3] didn't bet (folded)

[xx4] didn't bet (folded)

[Loose] lost $6.50 [ 8d Kc ] (two pair, kings and eights)

[Cutoff me] bet $6.50, collected $26, net +$19.50 (showed hand) [ 7d 6d ] (a straight, four to eight)

[Delaer] lost $0.50 (folded)

[SB] lost $4.50 (folded)

[BB] lost $6.50 [ 5d 5s ] (three of a kind, fives)

[UTG] lost $0.50 (folded)


My questions:


1) Was coldcalling on the flop Poor, marginal OK?


2) Was calling on the turn poor, should I have raised to potentially bump out flush and fullhouse draws.


Appreciate any other comments on my play.

Raise the turn...raise raise raise!!!


The bets are not getting any bigger on the river, and anyone with two pair, a set, a flush draw, or a straight draw is coming. Charge them now, not later. I'd guess your big pot could have been at least 3BB larger as SB's (likely) busted flush draw would have paid on the turn, and so would two pair/set. Perhaps more as the set or two pair may have capped on you (and possibly correctly, given their odds of drawing out).


People pay when they have hope, not when they have nothing. Remember that.

This method of posting is hopeless; abreviate the mechanics PLEASE.


With a tight player betting, a tight player calling, and a not aggressive player raising you are probably up against 3 hands at least as good as a pair of Kings. The chances of you driving everybody out of this pot is near zero. Therefore call and play for your draw.


On the turn its a tough situation where you want to charge the players drawing to beat you (2-pair, flush draws; and it doesn't really matter if they are going to fold or not) but want to keep the one-pair hands in. "Automatically" calling, hehehe, with the nuts is a poor strategy, although you may want to do it often. So making the first turn call is marginal. However, once its raised behind you then go ahead full blast, since you aren't losing anybody anyway and your call-reraise looks a little suspicious.


- Louie

1) Your call on the flop is just fine, esp. if you count on the loose player to raise. The BB should have reraised on the flop instead of smooth calling, but oh well. It's kinda funny that he would call on the flop and then check-raise the turn when the only drawing hand available (76) got there with the 4h.


2) Raising the turn while you have the best hand (that can be beaten) is the best play. The set, two pair, and any heart draw will stay in for an extra BB, with the pot laying them those odds. And they may cap it for you. Collect while you still can.

Pots get bigger by raising, not by calling. One of the big mistakes I see new or bad players make is not raising their good hands. When they win they win a tiny pot. Raise it up.


Here's an example from last night. Flop comes down all clubs with 5 of the biggest calling stations around involved. Checked around. Turn comes blank. Checked around. River blanks, checked to C/U who bets and he's raised by the SB. All fold and the SB takes it with nut clubs. "I didn't want to scare anyone off, no one could have called anyway". The guy sittting beside me showed me the Kc on the flop and would have called 30 bets to get to the river. The CU showed 2 pair and likewise would have called down. This guy (whose a winning player) missed at least 3 BB and more likely 4 or 5. Bet your hand!

My primary criticism of your post has nothing to do with your play, it has to do with the format. Readers of this forum generally prefer short posts over long (goes to show that most people have SHORT attentions spans, even 2+2ers). Some of us, like me, often write long posts, but we usually put (long) somewhere in the subject line. This way the short attention span readers know to avoid our long posts. However, your post has relatively little significant information in it, but it is really long. Posting hand histories from the net sucks, and you will get far fewer reads of your post when you do this. Also, some readers might avoid your posts in the future.


An example of how to post this hand…


I'm in the cutoff with 6d5d. Four players limp and I limp. Button and both blinds call, 8 players, 8 small bets in the pot.


Flop comes 8 K 5 rainbow with one heart. SB bets and it's called around to the player on my right, who raises. I call the two bets and the button folds, everyone else calls. 7 players, a bzillion bets in the pot! … etc etc….


Post your hand like that and you basically turn a three page post into a ten line post. Then you can add commentary as you go, you can post player tendencies before hand, etc…. Many times, less is definitely WAY more! And it was an interesting hand...


As for how you played the hand…


Pre-flop your call is fine.


On the flop, there is a bet and two calls, then it gets raised. You have eight clean outs to the nuts, because the board is rainbow. I have no problem with this cold call. Had it been a bet and three calls, you could have raised it for value with your draw (and possibly gotten a free card on the turn, if you so chose to take it).


On the turn, it's bet right before you, then you called. This is a double-edged sword for you. On the one hand, you would like to have players call behind you and win some money with your draw, especially if these players are drawing dead or almost dead. However, there are now two hearts on board, which means someone very well may have a flush draw. If you somehow KNEW there was a flush draw against you, raising would be the only reasonable play, because you MUST charge them to draw, and very few would fold a flush draw here anyway. Also, someone could have a hand like a pair and a gutshot to the same straight you have, or possibly a hand like 97, which could have up to three outs to a better straight than you. Although these possibilities won't happen very often, they do take a little equity away from your hand. Another thing, if someone else has a set, they have a darn good draw to beat you, and you would definitely want to charge them to try, especially given that they WON'T fold. All things considered, if you had raised the turn, I would have been fine with that, but I can see your temptation to call and keep people in. Now when it gets check-raised and reraised back to you, you have more of an enigma on your hands than a tough decision. You aren't going anywhere, that much we have figured out. If you call, you might keep some players in, and they are likely drawing to only a couple outs at best. However, the pot is very large at this point, and it becomes less and less important that you disguise your hand as the pot gets bigger. The check-raiser and reraiser won't fold, and they will pay off the extra bets that any extraneous limpers may have put into the pot by your just calling. I would have just capped it.


River is a no-brainer.


Dave in Cali

"Raise the turn...raise raise raise!!! "


Although I hemmed and hawed about it in my response, I have no problem with Dave's assessment here. If you NEVER slowplayed ANYTHING in a low limit game, you would do just FINE.