empire poker school

[crockpot]

http://www.empirepokerschool.com/

is anyone at 2+2 planning a lawsuit for the blatant theft of strategic advice, in some cases word for word?

sad to see that some of the fishies may soon be learning that 9-4 is a 'trash' hand.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi crockpot:

Can you point me to some places where
[ QUOTE ]
the blatant theft of strategic advice, in some cases word for word?


[/ QUOTE ] is taking place.

Thanks,
Mason

[El Dukie]

If you need a good Intellectual Property lawyer, I can recommend several.... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi El Dukie:

Thanks, but we have the best attorney in this field in our area.

Best wishes,
Mason

[lunchmeat]

I briefly looked at their advice and saw that they recommend players muck J2s from the small blind for half a bet in multiway pots. Once I saw this I wasn't too worried about the fish going to school.

[Cubswin]

Mason

I dont think there is anything that is word for word but some of the advice comes close. The one example that stands out in my mind is this one.

Under their quiz section they ask:
[ QUOTE ]

Q. You are in the middle part of a tournament. A good player raises preflop. You have KQ. What do you do?

A.Fold. Due to the ‘gap’ concept, you should avoid confrontation, especially with a hand that is easily dominated like KQ.


[/ QUOTE ]

This looks a lot like pg 27 of TPFAP but i guess the quotes mean that is properly sited? Im not really sure...im no IP expert.

regards
cubswin

[daveymck]

I suspect its a cynical marketing play, VC has similar as well that goes into some classification of starting hands.

I would expect it to expand across sites, these companys are spending thousands of pounds to attract new players it is not in their interests for their new customers to put in $50-$100 lose all their money in their first session and never play again.

They want educated players who are going to play and generate rake not just too feed the sharks.

VC seems to be taking the line of trying to convert its play money customers into real money ones by offering play money tournies with penny prizes but having penny tables and tournies.

As the market grows and competition becomes fiercer between the sites it will become intersting to see the ploys the various sites and skins use to attract and more importantly retain players.

[crockpot]

i only glanced at a few of the pages, but the "when an ace raises" advice in stud/8 is clearly the exact same as ray zee's in a few places. perhaps this is the only example in the strategy guides, but i doubt it.

[crockpot]

there are good and bad things about the site. it does teach good play, but at the same time it teaches you how to beat a 10/20 game, not a 1/2 or 3/6 game. the advice to raise with (9J)A in a stud/8 game is a good example. how many of you would make this play in a 1/2 game?

also, as you said, the advice is far from perfect.

[TwoGun]

Hi. This is a little late in response, but I just found the thread.

I wrote a significant amount of the articles for the poker school. The articles I wrote were certainly not copies of anything written in any 2+2 literature. All of the words were my words. Like many winning players, my style of playing is similar to that espoused in the 2+2 literature (i.e tight-aggressive), though certainly not the same.

I dont' think you can really copyright an idea like raise with AK suited, and I thought the 'gap' concept was a commonplace idea similar to 'protecting your hand.' I also can't comment about the 7 stud-hi lo article mentioned because I did not write that.

Also, if you read the school, you can see that it is laid out in a different way from the literature. A lot of the beginners section is simply how to play internet poker. The hold'em sections I wrote certainly cannot be considered ot be taught in a similar fashion as hold'em for advanced players (the hands are not ranked and the style of play is not written based on position).

Also, the site is divided between beginner/advanced. I wrote the beginner sections, mainly with the idea of helping someone win a $1-2 game. The advanced sections were
not written with a limit in mind, but it would assume someone who knew the basics of winning at a low-limit game. As anyone can agree, articles are just tips, and no book or article is guaranteed to make you a winning player.

Nevertheless, if you have any questions or comments, feel free to private message me.

[Lindiz]

Hi,

it took w wile do find the empire scool, but...

you wrote "i only glanced at a few of the pages, but the "when an ace raises" advice in stud/8 is clearly the exact same as ray zee's in a few places. perhaps this is the only example in the strategy guides, but i doubt it."

Well, at empire the advice is 3 sentences long, namely: "When an ace raises, you should not play many hands. Dump all of your high pairs because you do not know if the ace is going high or low. Even when playing against a maniac, keep in mind that he is starting with the best card in the deck"

Ray Zee writes, in my book, this advices in a whole page. Sentence one are the same, but common knowledge. Sentence 2 is defeniately not according to Zee. He says to be leary to raise or even playing the high pairs. Not what Empire teaches. Sentence 3 is extremely close to a sentence in Zees book. But again, its common knowledge, and one thing one often hear players saying to eachother.

So: Sentence one: Probulary not have a case
Sentense two: Definiately not have a case, advice differs from Zee
Sentence three: Maybe have a case.

There are som advices in the school that could be from 2+2 books. There are also advices that clearely NOT are from the books, like the power of the 6 in an A2xx hand in Omaha Hi/Lo (at least I have not found it in any 2+2 book). Probulary the writer(s) have put together their text, and then consulted the books available to get a good language (Empire is a greek company I think).

[Lindiz]

Hi Again,

well, I re-read Zees book, and found out that he also advises to fold the high pairs - my error. However, clearely not stated the same way as at Empire.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Lindiz:

I took a quick look at the site and I don't see any problem.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Lindiz]

Hi Mason,

Well you actually should be proud. There are some 2+2 "language", some "Brunson Brawl" and some Caro-isms, but no T&T Championship bullshit :-) The Greeks may not have any knowledge about Interlectual Property, but they sure knows to chose their sorces.

The text about High Omaha is really good. It adresses limit, but the autors writes some about pot-limit as well. This text is also longer than the others. I know that they play alot pot-limit Omaha by the midterreian (how the hell do you spell that sea), and my guess is that they have consulted a good poker player with somewhat bad writing skills.